Gays For Jesus
Read Testimony of Phil
Hobizal director of The Portland Fellowship.
Read Testimony of Jason Thompson Portland Fellowship administrator.
Read Testimony of John Paulk Portland Fellowship, Public Relations.
(John Paulk Vice-President Exodus International North America)
Read Testimony of Anne Paulk Board President and ministry leader
Article Date: Sunday, December 07, 1997
Comments in replies to
Four ex-gay leader's testimonies
^i^ I will make comments step by step through the following testimonies from an Exodus site. I'd like to inform them ex-gays can be set free.
Portland Fellowship is informing the homosexual community that they can be set
Read Testimony of Phil Hobizal director of The Portland Fellowship.
Read Testimony of Jason Thompson Portland Fellowship administrator.
Read Testimony of John Paulk Portland Fellowship, Public Relations.
(John Paulk Vice-President Exodus International North America)
At age 20 I was in Thailand the best year of my life .
The Way Out
by Phil Hobizal
At the age of twenty I felt like my life was coming to an end. I used to say, "I won't make twenty-one."
^i^ While I was discovering my life was all the more worth living Phil at that age was thinking of death because the Church had heaped tons onto his shoulders telling him he was the worse kind of person in the world.
The strain of living a double life, frantically trying to hide my homosexual actions, had reached its peak. I was going crazy! I did not want to be gay. I needed help.
^i^ I know this 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine has no mercy doesn't it? This forces so many to lead doubles lives. But this does not make gay sin; it's just a tragic consequence of the Church's ungodly doctrine.
In desperation, I decided to talk to my parents. Tearfully, I shared with them that I was gay, and that I wanted help. They were not totally surprised. They had wondered many times why I had such intense relationships with men, and hardly any interest in women.
^i^ Yes, at times in gay people's "coming out" is important and to want not to be gay, because of the treatment you get on account of this anti-gay Church 700 year old doctrine, that effects non-believers too, is not going to solve anything. Most gay people of course come out to parents not to get changed, but because they are tired of pretending to be straight for others sakes. Because you somehow, as we may learn, felt gay is sin and wanted to be "normal" as you believed that would mean be straight. We lose a lot here somewhere. You apparently are making us assume you actually were having relationships with other men, which assumes you knew a little about the gay community, but to coming crying for help to your parents confuses things as though you never really knew their was plenty of help for you to find out some apparently desperately needed facts. Lets see if you are like the typical ex-gay that just had a miserable childhood and sought no truth and just accepted without question the anti-gay Church doctrine.
"Why don't you become a priest?", my Dad suggested. That was hardly an answer to my dilemma. "Will you help me get some counseling?", I asked. They agreed and I saw a therapist for a short time. He encouraged me that coming to terms with my self-hatred would solve everything. "It's OK to be gay." I wondered, "Isn't there any hope of change?"
^i^ Big help to suggest being a priest meaning celibate not Christian. Now here is again is the typical ex-gay leaders testimony. Never study just ask a homophobe for help. You are vague on your therapist. It sounds like the therapist thinks being gay is not a sin. And yes, figuring out your self is the correct path that basically is what you and Jesus do together since you accept Jesus. You are becoming a better person. But here it sounds like you did not want to do that or hear that and apparently wanted someone to agree with you that you should become straight because you though being gay were wrong.
I grew up in a rural community outside Portland, Oregon, in a Christian home and attended a Christian grade school. As I grew older, I began to question the faith of my childhood. "Did God make a mistake when He made me?” I wondered. "Was I supposed to be a girl?"
^i^ Opps a huge problem is now arising, you are not gay you are a transvestite, or transsexual, or transgender? How can you give a testimony as an ex-gay? You weren't gay. By the way God did not make a mistake with you, but you did trying to find "The Way Out".
I was more comfortable doing the 'girls' activities; always staying in the safety of home, yet wanting to be a part of the activities my brothers shared. I felt like I was on the inside looking out at a world I didn't fit into. Anything that had to do with sports or competition scared me. I hated being made fun of, being called a 'sissy', so I avoided learning activities that would bring about ridicule. I feared people's opinions of me. All I wanted was to be liked, especially by men. Masculinity scared but still intrigued me.
^i^ Why haven't you ever looked into groups that helped you? I have talked to many that felt like they were a girl and there are plenty of groups to help you. Lots of these people are Christians. You could have seen to legitimacy of you nature. I personally can't possibly understand this kind of person, but I know God does and that it is very real and not sin. But again for you to be a director of an ex-gay ministry makes no since. You certainly have power over the men you weren't.
My dad worked hard to support the family; at times working two jobs. I didn't think he liked me. He was harsh and critical. I was whinny and a bit spoiled. We could not connect. In reaction, I began to resent him, and eventually I rejected him, as a father and role model. My mom, on the other hand, was a friend to me. I admired her loving nature and shared many interests with her. She played a key role in shaping my identity.
^i^ These scenarios to say father made me gay and so I am looking for my father doesn't make this a gay thing. This mental disorder is common to humans, because you are gay does not make gay sin or make every gay person have this sickness that you do. Why is it that if you have a bad relation with your father that this is a criteria for becoming gay? It is so easy to review straight people and find that oh so many straight boys hated their fathers for many reasons. Just like the reasons I have reading in ex-gay leader's testimonies. These boys never became gay. Also, most gays have absolutely wonderful family relationships while growing up. How come they are gay. Brothers in the same household both having the same problem with their father if one is gay why not the other? Did fathers also made babies feel need of a missing father's love as it were to give clues that they were gay by age three? You can't just reject studies because you want gay to be sin so badly. If you feel the need to condemn gay based on the Bible you must by the Bible's principles go about to find truly the groups mentioned therein. The Bible give tons of descriptions about who it condemns and gay are not described. Moms are sometimes the buffer for kids. This does not make them gay or love to play with girl toys. Facts speak ever so loudly when you include controls to your study. If mom were bad you'd say that's why they hate women. Some say lesbians hate men because their dad was bad. Why wouldn't they look for a father image in the man they marry instead of hating men. Should gay men that hate their dad in like manner be all the more straight? There are such counteractions to the theories that gay are looking for the father they didn't or love.
When I was four years old, an older boy in the neighborhood took an interest in me and gave me attention. I enjoyed it not knowing that it was inappropriate. Then, when I was seven, another older boy drew me into physical sexual behavior. Again, I liked the contact but this time, I did feel guilty. It was then that the word 'queer' was used and suddenly I had a label to put with my feelings.
^i^ And so you became gay because boys played with you sexually. Why am I gay then? Yes, while people grow they experiment with their bodies and this often leads to involving peers. You say older, but how much older. If considerably you might be getting into rape or molestation. If a year or two curiosity doesn't really kill the cat. Most studies tell you that a time for discovering your sexuality begins. You were in the way of an older kid, the rightness or wrongness is not an issue in "is gay sin or not". It is an issue of age appropriateness. If this inappropriate age thing cause you to become mentally disturbed sexually that is a problem that you have to deal with but it is not a gay issue except if you are gay you may need a gay sensitive therapist to help you. Guilt based on a homophobic word is not guilt based on committing a sin. You like it the contact so what your problem? The problems can be sin because of possible sexual relations in adultery or prostitute or the like, but discovering your sexuality is not a sin. Many times this is a phase and if straight boys are doing it as they grow a little more they see that the are straight because their nature is straight and the phase phased out to the high attraction to the opposite sex. Often gays do the opposite they try to experiment with girls, but the high attraction to bays wins out. Its not as simple as that, but the point is you are not making a point that gay is sin. Besides you weren't gay you are a transsexual, transvestite, or transgender.
In school I was involved in music and art. They were a refuge from my insecurities. As I grew older my fears increased. The ongoing nagging problem, was that I did not like who I was. I considered suicide at the age of thirteen, but could not go through with it. The next year I began using drugs and alcohol.
^i^ Like so many ex-gays you have a victim set personality. This means you weren't a sick little boy that needed help are right just to get out of your making a victim out of your self and find there are plenty of healthy options in life. I had lots of indications and feeling that I was gay growing up. Feeling guilty was not a part of my life. But enjoying being alive was. I liked boy things and had enough friends and wasn't concerned with is this feeling I am gay is sin thing. I had yes to deal with this, but it was my life to deal with and what others thought wasn't going to rule my life. I felt guilty steeling things. But mostly being a normal boy growing up in a normal neighborhood untouched by rapist or any kind of thing that would or could cause for need of therapy let alone alarm. There are plenty of gay that grew up otherwise a completely normal life. Why are they gay?
In an effort to be liked, I came up with an image that people would accept. I created a hardened exterior, to protect my vulnerable self. I grew my hair long, wore torn clothes, became rebellious towards my parents and dreamed of making it as a rock star. Then, I stopped going to church. My sexual desires had been suppressed, but I began to act them out. First through fantasy and masturbation, and then through sexual contact with other guys. This was painstakingly hidden; my secret life. The town I lived in was small, and any hint of being a homosexual meant ridicule and abuse. I became a great liar. The fear of my secrets being found out haunted me.
^i^ It sounds like you had a big problem loving yourself and had to event way to make others love you so you could love yourself. If you chose to be wild in the street to get attention or to appear acceptable. That is sick. Why do you need attention? Everybody wants to be loved, but they don't grow long hair to do it. I didn't join the bully gang to be accepted by the bullies. It seems you did. My cousin joined the bullies and got into drugs during high school and into fights. Why what's the point? Do what you like. I was my own kind of rebellious youth because I was me and I believed my way. I did not believe in hurting people ever. I was an atheist till 27, but I love truth and to be a good person because that was me. This loving of truth led me to accept Christ one day. I was rebellious towards my parents, but guess what that is a pretty common cycle as we humans become teenagers and want our own freedom to live our own lives. Yes, when one arrives at puberty masturbation begins. In 1850 there was a clergy convention. Among to topics for discussion was 1 Cor 6:9 it was up to then taught people that did it would not inherit the kingdom. They all agreed they must change the teaching on this verse because if they were right no on would be in Heaven because they all agreed that everyone masturbates. They also agreed to start teaching gays won't inherit because they had to come up with a group that would be easy to slip into this verse as the ones that won't inherit and gays were already condemned though not so much, but the 700-year ant-gay Church doctrine though not as old back then was still generally taught. Because you did this and felt guilty as such was because this has already been sunk so deep into by the Church you had little resource to find out the truth. We have no idea how old you are now and must assume old enough to tell your parents you will not go to church anymore. It is a terrible fact that in small town gays would have it more difficult, that why many left for the city. But humans are very adaptable. You found ways to meet people in secret. Is this sin? Christian often had to meet in secret, even today this is true, often we must be careful at work in our Christian walk, especially in witnessing. Often we pretend not to be Christians at all or only in statement. Does this make it sin? You so far have gone through things which are normal enough it's just that you are "victim set" about it and so lived in guilt from day to day.
After high school, I moved to Portland. The city had more sexual opportunities and I discovered a few gay bars. Still, even in the city, the fear of being identified as gay was more than I could handle. However, the more I read the more confused I became. Was there hope for change? I searched Eastern philosophies, meditation, self-hypnosis and self-help books but these all required discipline and inner strength, the very thing I was lacking. Upon reaching this dead end, I concluded that I would be a homosexual all of my life. I decided that I should be involved in legitimizing my sexual preference. I needed to "fight for my rights."
^i^ Well at least now we know its now after high school. Most people at least in my youth were not as sexuality active as you were. I was in a little bit bigger city, but I did not come out really till I was 24 when I met my 1st lover that lasted ten years. So far I am having a hard time trying to see where this fits in to "gay is sin"? Is it that all gays have a horrible live and so proving gay to be sin. Or this happens to be your horrible life and your answer was to get off? Did you know the Christians have an usual way of coming to Jesus? They often go by way of "Eastern philosophies, meditation, and self-hypnosis and self-help books”. This doesn't make gay sin either. It just means people go through lots of spiritual stuff to get to GOD. You know God is Spirit don't you? You must worship him in spirit. So you must at least get to believe there is a spirit world. It took me till 27 years olds to go through that process. I have talked with untold numbers of straights and heard about many and read studies on coming to Christ. This is a very normal process. Lots of routes like you say are just to bothersome to obtain the end results. You weren't lacking, you just weren't interested. To be a Christian requires much more than other religions actually. Why can you do this one? Because the others don't have the Master living inside. What a terrible conclusion, sounds like you hated the thought. You weren't set free because you always believed it sin and so far never studied for your self to see if it really was. This last statement is a learned one from your ex-gay outreach. At the time I bet you did not have this opinion on your decision to fight for rights. I have heard homophobes say " legitimizing my (your) sexual preference" a million times. You are repeating them after the fact here in your testimony. You began fighting for right because you knew it was the right thing to do. What a pathetic person that fights for rights when in their heart they believe its wrong. Imagine a black person fight for his rights and he believed blacks should not have rights because the color was sin. That is what you are telling us you did.
I started a full time job, and at the same time became friends with a Christian. He was different than the Christian people I had known growing up. My religious background and my so-called search for truth led into many discussions of who God was. He invited me over to dinner with his family. We talked about Jesus and I came to realize that I didn't know whom he was talking about. The God of my childhood was cold and distant. His God was personal and powerful. Soon, I found myself praying to know this God. God met me in a very personal way. I made a commitment to follow Him. I asked forgiveness for having lived a life of selfish pleasure seeking. The love of God overwhelmed me. It was my sinfulness that drove me to God, yet it was His love that drew me to Him.
^i^ Christians first come to Jesus not because of there sinfulness. Here you are all grown and the way you have us believe sinning your whole life away. The way people come to Christ is not their sins drove them to him, but that the Holy Spirit convicted them, which means for the first time you really do see yourself a sinner which there is no hope(knowing also there is no hope for anyone else either because all has sinned not just you) Jesus paid the price for you in your stead. It did not happen as you are telling us. You either left out much leading up to the visit with these Christians or they told you in a very short order why Jesus came and for the first time you heard his story and that was overwhelming to know this love. Don't give sin the credit give Jesus the credit. Sin and you or those that lead you to him had nothing to do with saving you. Jesus first loved you. You hated him and wanted nothing to do with him, but he loved you and came and got you and these people just happened to be the one he used to finalize getting you to him to fall in love with him too. Accepting Christ is a most wonderful experience for a lot of people, but some feel little or nothing and they may be stronger Christian than we'll ever know. I myself had a very dramatic and touching experience and not one single thing had to do with gay is sin or what a horrible life I had. My life was generally good, I was generally a good person doing good and a hard good worker, overall had no big problems just usual ups an downs anyone would have, but I knew I was a sinner and Jesus could saved though moments before I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt there was no God or gods. Jesus really first loved me. I went on to have almost 15 years in the Assemblies of God with good experiences even my lover and I went together to church and potlucks etc with all the straight Pentecostals and only got good fellowship. Only once the music pastor said to us are we gay, we said yes and he said be careful not to let the pastor (a good on too) know. As for him he didn't care that we were gay. God blessed us and me through these years. Many preachers laid hands on me and prophesied good thing from God. It wasn't until my calling came to full and I began my TV ministry that I got negative responses from Christians up till then they often told me they see God in me and the call on my life. They often sensed I was a man of God. Explain this doesn't it sound different than your testimony? I have so generalized down to a line or two my experiences each one I can writ a book about. Needless to say God so overwhelmed me that almost 24 years later I am not off the honeymoon yet. I love Jesus so and to hear this report that gay is sin is ridiculous. I am always shocked how someone that say they are a Christian never takes time to find the truth.
I didn't know how He was going to do it, but I knew I had found the way out of my homosexual struggle. I went on a cleansing spree that was inspired by the Holy Spirit. I removed everything from my home that was in conflict with my new found faith. I flushed drugs down the toilet; I tossed out books and records. All I wanted to do was to talk about my relationship with God. The people I hung out with soon found me annoying. I made them uncomfortable. I was challenged to stand with God, whether or not I was supported by friends or family. Up until then, I had lived for the approval of others. Could I live with just the approval of God?
^i^ I did a lot of the same things, but drugs weren't there. I am sorry about some things I did, because in the zealousness I lost some things that isn't a problem with God, but at the time it was proving my commitment to him and I would not change that at all. I talked for hours at work about the whole Bible. I recited the Bible stories from beginning to end and still do at times. I began studying these things too. I did drink an weekend in a party fashion and from that day on never a drop. And so much more. I put my lover on the alter and ask God to teach me the truth, HE DID. Gay is not sin.
I started going to a church. I would stay near the back and run out as soon as service was over. I loved God but felt so inadequate in relating to people that I would avoid them. Eventually I was asked to pass out the bulletin since I was already standing by the door. It forced me to meet people. God showed me His sense of humor. Slowly, I got to know some people, but the subject of my homosexual struggle was still a dark secret. This was not an easy time. I remember craving intimacy, so intensely that I would curl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep. I had no one to talk to. I had stopped having sex with others, but fantasy and masturbation were a constant struggle.
^i^ Funny out of the blue God showed you His since of humor? Seems a way out of context like maybe you forgot a paragraph so we don't know your point here. Was it funny that you handed our bulletins. I had some fun myself with others handing out bulletins too. I was in the closet with that church, but who cared, it wasn't an issue with me I was loving God and loved that church and the people and likewise. Not all gays had your hang ups. Everybody wants somebody, so what? I haven't heard of a straight or gay person that down deep inside they want to be with someone if they are single at the time. Didn't you know God made us to want to be with someone? Certainly it can be lonely out their, so what. That is what is called being a human being. Sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't. You don't often find someone by being content with being single. That's why so much of the world is set up to meet others in so many different ways. If you banned other guys and aren't attracted to women then you made your bed so lie in it, but don't make us pity your lonely self. In 1850 there was a clergy convention to discuss " masturbation" to make a long story short they agreed everyone did it and so if they kept teaching "masturbation" won't inherit the Kingdom then heaven would be empty. They agreed to changed their teaching to gays won't inherit. Why is it that all ex-gay leaders have the same kind of problems? You all have an obsession with your bodies and feeling so guilty about it. Why don't you find out if you are mentally sick or normal? It doesn't take long to find out about human sexual nature. Lots of people like to research it and so there are tons of material on it.
Late one night, I got a threatening phone call from a man who accused me of being gay. All I could say into the receiver was, "Jesus was changing me." It became clear that I could not go on battling this alone. I made an appointment with my pastor and surprisingly, he was very positive. One Sunday, the other guy who handed out bulletins shared that his neighbors were homosexual, and he felt they should know that they were going to hell. My pastor interrupted him and said that, I had something I wanted to share. My mouth was dry, and my knees shaking, I quietly shared that I had been a homosexual and that God was healing me. It was out! For the first time in my life, my homosexual struggle was out in the open. I wanted to run out, but people stopped me, and said they were moved by my honesty.
^i^ Surprised your pastor was positive????? WHY? He is homophobic and when you say Jesus is healing what did you expect he'd say? You sure didn't handle that call very well. Of course there is more to the story than you just saying Jesus is healing you to the phone threat. We aren't naïve. Isn't just like homophobes? They just got to tell gays they are going to hell. Sure they'd be moved. Besides you were not honest, just at the last point of desperation, no honesty involved. You see the meaning of "the Truth will set you free" was in operation here. You had not even a speck of truth on this issue and so was at the mercy of those around you who were predominately homophobic and so would be very willing to jump in and lead you to their truth.
Another turning point came in my relationship with my dad. He became ill and required a dangerous surgery. Suddenly, I was filled with emotions I had not felt before. I loved him and did not want him to die. God had softened the years of hardening in my heart toward him, and I let go of all that I was holding against him. I asked Dad's forgiveness for how I had treated him all these years. Our relationship began to be healed.
^i^ Well I certainly hope you could finally forgive your dad, too bad it had to be an illness to reach you. However this is human nature. Don't you even know the first things about how people respond to events? Has nothing to do with being gay or becoming ex-gay. It has everything to do with being a human being. You don't even have to be a Christian; God built this feature in everyone. Events change lives. If you want to praise God more directly it would be that He showed you how to love your dad before illness scared you. Otherwise your praises are for the discovery that God built into you a feature that when possible loss of a loved occurs a dramatic process occurs in you mental state and you find this forgiveness in many cases for one you hated. But to blame these processes on being delivered of being gay are ridiculous.
Through these challenges, my self-image began to change. I was becoming the man God had intended. Many things would follow over the years to bring about change as I followed God's leading. The most profound was my relationship with my wife. Our courtship was the sweetest time in both our lives. I had never experienced feelings for a woman, but my feelings for Patty were strong.
^i^ You just skim over a vast section of your life? Didn't hear much of your personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Never heard a word of study on the gay issues and the Bible. Then a period of mysterious courtship which was the sweetest time of both your lives. We don't get to hear about this? Did that sweetness end? That was the best and now what is it? Just medium? I am under the impression that there are missing factors, which explain the missing parts of your life. You certainly are far from the average gay person. If as you wish gay were sin then as a leader of an ex-gay wouldn't you try to find testimonies to put on your site that would reflect the gay community? I have read somewhere around 40-50 ex-gay leader testimonies and have not found one to compare my life or other gay peoples lives. Yes, many have had a rough childhood, but they sure dealt with it a lot different than you did. Is there hope for most gays? Certainly not if the only ex-gays around lived lives so different form yours. Yes, you had lots of common things happing as you grew, its just you went in to what is called a "victim set" mode of dealing with life.
Who could have imagined that someone who was involved in drugs, alcohol and gay sex would be getting married? Now, thirteen years and five children later, we are still enjoying God's blessing. I got involved in ministry to let others, like myself, know that there was a way out. With God, nothing is impossible.
^i^ Many many gays have married, what's unusual about that? In fact in history when there were no insurance plans or retirement benefit programs the retirement was based with children. Gays would marry for the sake of retirement benefits as one historian jokingly put it. Famous men of the past often had wives as history records and is taught in school, but to continue the historical research many of these men married for the purpose to produce children and had sex for that purpose which doesn't take that long to achieve. The year had 365 days most was spent with an intimate relationship with a lover. Today of course most ex-gay leaders seem to be married, but by their own testimony they were not gay, but bisexual. This is such a vast difference than being gay. When gays marry they have lots of trouble and even after 30 years they have to come to terms with this often at the experience of wives and children all for the sake of appearing straight. I have read stories coming out of my ears on this very thing. Your concerns involved trying to act like a man? So what does this have to do with being gay? Because some gays act fem doesn't have anything to do with gays don't act like men. So often the condemnation of gays has the "they think they are a woman" aspect to it. Most gays this just isn't true. Below I discuss John Paulk's testimony. I will insert an observation that he and his wife both had these opposite gender physics working long after they married. So what about being fem or butch. Where in the Bible does it say a man must be butch? I am not fem, but if you are so what. Don't try to tell people the Bible says you must fit some sort of man's roll. There are lots of countries and cultures and traditions and conditionings that you fail to add in to God's equation of who man is and who woman is. This Marlboro man image is just a model, like women models. Real life just ain't that way. Haven't you heard they are changing Barbie into a more representative figure. If you are into alcohol this covers all walks of life and so there is help for that and even help for that in your background. Same with drugs. Why is it that you like so many associate gay with drugs and alcohol and other sins. These sins fit everyone. Being gay does not fall into a sin group. Gays can and do sin, but in the common to all sins. Being gay and behaving gay is not a sin. Funny, you got involved to show a way out, but here in your testimony you skipped over The Way Out and magically found your self married. We don't know how you find your Way Out. The conclusion is you have no answers to the Church doctrine against gays and never spent a minute researching this to find out the truth. Just accepting a homophobic pastor's advice and help is not any way to learn the facts about gays and if it is sin or not. Lets go on to the next testimony.....
^i^ We can already see that Jason had a very troubled life. He blamed being gay on his insecurities. I have yet to see an Ex-gay leader reflect from his adult education and experience especially since they now claim to be counselors to people trying to get changed because they also had a sick childhood. Why can't these, supposed to be Christians loving truth, find out about human nature. Six billion people and tons of research from every kind of source and we have the Bible too. Yet, these leaders haven't a clue about their miserable childhood. Sure when growing up it just isn't at your finger tips to find out how our body functions physically and mentally and emotionally, but as we grow we learn even when no one helps. As we mature we gather insight through many sources to figure out the process of our youth. There are facts alone that should solve many a insecurity of our youth. Some are so easy like you did not have an unusual childhood. Millions went through what you went through and there are plenty of material for you to read and hear about so you can see these things that happened or you felt were actual a very normal process. That you just dealt with it all out of proportion. This alone should have set you free from the misery you felt growing up. Facts would tell you 10% are gay and if you are then hey that's you, it comes with 700 years of Church persecution a fact. Its not right, but it a fact. You have to live within the these facts and do what you can to adjust and or help change this evil concept of the Church or through conventional human rights movements. You can just live in the system with not much problems as well. But instead, as we read, you stayed locked up in what is called a "victim set" personal which provides only more confusion and wrong choice options. You can choose how to deal with your life and because the Church said gay is sin does not mean you have to accept that. God did not make this Church doctrine and the Church has been quite evil in the past 2000 years just like Israel had been since the LAW of Moses.
I was 14 and sat alone in my grandparents house with a Bible in my lap. Since my father was an Episcopal minister and I was raised in a Christian home I was familiar with many Bible stories but that day I desperately needed to know what God had to say about homosexuality. After reading, it was clear from His word, that God considered homosexuality a sin. This made me more confused than ever.
^i^ We already have a problem. You did not just sit on the porch and find gay is sin in the Bible. You had already felt you were gay and had already heard about the verses to look up and read. This magically finding gay is sin in a short reading just isn't fact. It would make you confused because first you were told this and that verse said gay was sin and then you read it with the background that it means gay is sin. You did not at 14 get out the Greek or Hebrew and the history books and neither did you go to the library to read books on the gay side of the story. You got only a couple of the 13 verses used to condemn gays for 700 years.
Not long before, I had a dream that I was involved in homosexual behavior. I woke up scared and confused. After that, I recognized a growing strong desire to be physically close to my male peers. I felt there was something very wrong with me. I had not asked for these feelings, but as time passed, they only seemed to intensify.
I didn't know where these desires were coming from, and I knew I didn't want them. And I also knew I had to keep this part of me a secret. I prayed earnestly for God to take the desires away but unfortunately, they didn't go away. "Why wasn't He answering my prayers," I questioned. And wondered if God really even cared.
^i^ It is very terrible that information isn't easily available to those that find they are gay and what worse everything around them is geared to condemn gays. What choice did you have. As an adult you should have the where with all to understand your predicament and even as you entered high school you should be figuring out the customs and traditions and other people's idea are not necessarily true facts. You should also known that the Bible has often been misinterpreted. You should also know that you body doesn't have to be wrong all the time and your guts can even be right. Unfortunately our churches just don't teach that God indeed can and does answer prayer, but may not for a long time or may not for no reason that we can ever know. The best Christians suffered tremendously for no apparent reasons and were never delivered except by death. But our churches don't convey real life walks with Jesus to its people. Of course now you know God always cared, the same way you should have known about conditions of your past was not a criteria for becoming gay. There are too many straights with the same past and too many gays without that past.
High School was a confusing time. Unsure of my identity, I sought out guys who I could be emotionally close to, all the while wishing for a physical connection as well. One friend and I engaged in some sexual experimentation. The experience satisfied some curiosity my fantasy life had created. Soon after, this friend became the center of my emotional world. I continued to pray, but God still did not take away my desires.
As a senior, I finally gathered up enough nerve to reach out for help. I found the number for a teen counseling help line and called. After nervously rattling off my story to the teen hotline worker, she coldly replied, "The guy who deals with the gays will be in on Friday." I threw the phone down in frustration and climbed on my red Honda Elite scooter and sped through the side streets of Southeast Portland, angry and hopeless, hoping to kill myself by slamming into a parked car. But God stopped me and calmed my heart.
^i^ But when your peers sought girls to date and have sex with or told you how horny they were you could relate that the same process was at work in you. You just hated how you felt and thought it was wrong because the Church told you so. Why could you have called a hotline for gay teens? They could have explained a lot about what is going on with you. It is also very common that ex-gay leaders think of suicide. Tell me what does that have to do with "gay is sin". Face your were a sick person needing help and now you started looking in the wrong places. As a adult can't you figure it out most gays did not want to kill themselves. Another note Episcopalians happen to be very supportive of gays. Integrity Seattle meets on the attacked chapel to their sanctuary. So though as a child the very church of your family generally is in support of gays. Are you familiar with the on going struggles within that church concerning gays. There are some bigots that just want to continue to hate gays.
By the Fall of 1990, I had a "girlfriend" who went to my parents church. We started to "date" and I pretended to be interested in her, but the strain of my conflicted feelings was beginning to be apparent to those who knew me. In a frightening conversation, I confided my struggle to her. Surprisingly, she had hopeful words for me. She tracked down the phone number of the Portland Fellowship. I nervously made the phone call that would soon change my life.
^i^ Again a typical way ex-gay leaders find there way to ex-gay ministries. They confide to a homophobe who knows how to find an ex-gay ministry. Pretended?????????? I doubt the pretending was as difficult as you make it sound. You are exhibiting bisexualness. Your parents church is Episcopalian and so have a strong leaning to support gays. If you went to the pastor he is supposed to help you by at least directing you to the availability to Integrity help. Some are actually in a defiance of church policy though they have some leeway the positive support is there. And of course why is it surprising that a homophobe would know how to contact ex-gays ministries. This should be for your reflection because at the time it would seem unusual for anyone to be helpful, but now you can look back to see that Christians are kind of a helpful bunch especially when you agree with someone. But they can be so hateful in the name of love if someone showed them facts where they are wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Phil Hobizal, the Fellowship director, answered the phone, and after listening to me pour out my struggle, encouraged me that he could help. Change was possible and we arranged to meet the following week. His words were the best news I had ever heard. I didn't know if I could wait that long!
^i^ We already know Phil because his testimony was a head of yours. This again should be understood in reflection because your counselor had quite a pitiful childhood of misery without any hint of researching the gay issue, just like you accepted the anti-gay 700 year old Church doctrine without hesitation or concern for "is this really true".
A few days later, and still riding on a wave of excitement, I told my parents about my struggle. I approached my mom with the intimidating words, "Mom, there's something I need to tell you. I struggle with homosexual tendencies..." She stopped me and said, "Wait, let me get your father, he needs to hear this too." I tried to stop her. I didn't think I could talk to my Dad about my secret. I had always felt distant from him. While I frequently shared my thoughts and feelings with my mom, I never felt like I had that freedom with my dad. Nervously, I paced the house as she went outside and called in my father. They sat down. I told them that I struggled with homosexual desires but that I didn't want to be gay. I also told them about the hope I learned about from the Portland Fellowship. It only took a few minutes to say, but it was a lot to drop on my parents.
I left their house feeling a freedom that I had never before experienced. The weight of the secret I had kept for years began to evaporate. I later found out that my parents were up most of that night, talking, crying, and praying. They got very little sleep and my Dad had to preach in the morning. I went to church and before the service, Dad took me outside. He told me that he had seen many people with serious problems during his years of ministry, but hadn't seen anyone deal with a problem so diligently. He told me that he had never been so proud of me as he was that day. Dad truly blessed me with his loving and supportive words. God was providing an answer.
^i^ God was providing an answer???? What do you base God's involvement on? Your father a preacher and obviously a homophobic one too? What happen was you saw such a pleasant response because he was glad you were trying to be straight. FACT, those were words, you actually was having a very difficult time trying to be straight by your own mouth. It sounds so good to a homophobic father that you are trying to be straight. Had you told him the truth that it nearly killed you with suicide and your desperate struggle then he might have had more concern, but you told him sweetly all is fine and you are becoming straight. Your answers to the gay question have not been answered till this day of my writing. God hasn't even really started moving with his answer yet. He is doing lots of things, but just wait, soon you'll see what should really confuse you. Gay is not sin. Check out my web site for more info on this.
My first year of involvement at the Portland Fellowship was difficult. During their Tuesday night meetings I learned about the roots of my homosexual desires, God's plan of forgiveness, and the freedom from homosexual struggle. However, occasionally on weekends, I would drive my scooter to downtown Portland and check out what was available in the gay community, hoping someone or something could fill the still gaping pit of emotional need.
^i^ This is always hard to understand. You find the answer and someone telling why you are gay and yet a year later (they can build skyscrapers in a year) yet as testimonies of individual ex-gays goes after one to two years they find Jesus is not asking them to change and be straight after all. Leaders go on to 6-8 years. Bisexuals are some other animal and should not act as if they speak on behalf of gays. What is so hard about living the straight side of your bisexuality? No deliverance is necessary here just choice. Yet should divorce come in a bisexual's straight marriage he would be subject to choosing gay or straight. Read about why you'd drive down to check out gays "click here http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/9647/romans.html I just wondered where you went downtown. Was it the bathhouses? Gay bars? Parks? Bathrooms? Gay sex book store? Corners where male prostitutes hang out? Where did you go? You did not tell us. Did you go to MCC or Integrity or Dignity? Did you go to another Christian gay group? Did you check out the many groups like country, hiking, ice skating, boating, theater, or any of the groups that cover every sort of activity that is just a good groups to meet others same as in the straight world. I doubt that you'd touch any healthy gays with a ten-foot pole. There are hotlines too for hurting gays and referral agencies to gay groups that could counsel you or just to get together within your interests. You are not living in the dark ages where it was very limiting where you could meet other gays. I grew in the last such times, but it was close enough that it was easy to find lots of decent dance bars. So where did you slip out to see how what park of the gay community was doing. Have you ever read any of the books written by the founders of the gay churches? Have you read Sylvia Pentingtons books? I knew her somewhat personally and interviewed her a few times on my TV program called "Gays For Jesus" she was an Assemblies of God woman who worked at a SF ex-gay out reach of Teen Challenge. She has spent 25 years helping gays understand gay is not sin after one year working in that ex-gay ministry. The story there is she knew 100 ex-gays in that ministry when she left it because she began to see the lies told these gays and the Bible just does not condemn gays. Later she returned to find all 100 gone. Since she knew everyone of them personally she also knew where they lived and went to look them up. She found all 100 back in the gay lifestyle and most much better Christian now. The founders of Exodus became lover and are now preaching they were wrong. They also say of there 3 years as the leaders of Exodus there was a 100% failure rate. Today Exodus boast of a higher success rate, but they do follow ups for a short time. There are other group that then take where they left off and follow these ex-gays further and find the failure rate is still nearly 100%. The bisexuality is giving the longer duration of living as an ex-gay. Which is a misnomer. Bisexual weren't gay in the first place. They do both just as easily. Who can understand why.
Pornography had a strong pull in my life which was a barrier to my ability to grow in what I was learning about God. It took a full year of participation with the Portland Fellowship before I was even able to realize that I could not have it both ways. I could not follow God and continue to hold out hope of satisfying this homosexual urge within.
^i^ The old porn made me do it thing? Porn has nothing to do with no being gay or not being straight. Porn is just another way of self gratification. Lots of guilt is heaped onto many a shoulders for porn's sake. There are far better ways to deal with sin than blame porn. You had the desires and so you chose porn. If your desires were there you wouldn't chose it whether gay or straight. Porn is not a gay issue it's a people issue. Straight or gay. Is straight porn a indication that straight is sin? No its an issue that the viewer of porn must deal with between him an God. People that love to blame porn already has a big problem, because they just don't get it about life and God. If the Church gets its act together then these things would fall by the way side. But the Church compounds these issues and so porn is compounded. And so its just another guilt trip to deal with no easy answers. If the Church got out of people's bedrooms thing Jesus could work in their lives. Now Jesus often just waits for you to try all the things people tells you is right. When you are finally ready he will help you. With ex-gays what can he do, you beg him to do a lie, so he doesn't do it. But if you beg him for something that isn't right he will give it to you so you can see its not right and so the truth will set you free. Jesus isn't giving you wrong answers just giving you your way so you can see his way. This is often a long trip. Porn isn't to blame. The Church forced you to not live normal as a gay person so no matter what you do it appears as sin to you and everyone else. It generates hopelessness. The phony answers of recent times is the ex-gays ministries. What a deterrent to truth. You get a false hope of deliverance. If you are bisexual you get an illusion of deliverance, but not knowing that divorce could set in motion who you really are.
By this time I was attending Bible college alongside of Portland Fellowship. Phil asked me if I would consider being a small group leader and I accepted. At school, I lived in the dorm and began to share my struggle with some of the guys in my section. It was a terrifying risk to take, and although not everyone knew quite how to handle this issue, I didn't experience rejection. One of the first guys I shared with became one of my closest friends.
^i^ Here again another example of ex-gay leaders. Not even close to being delivered and still struggling suddenly becomes a leader? I bet you college was selected on the bases of your struggle about being gay too. You thought you could get answers. I bet they never taught a thing about gays except a rush over basic 700 year old anti-gay doctrine. At least with some Bible college you should have learned how to study for you self. How convenient its along side an ex-gay ministry. I bet you they were very homophobic in there teaching if any about gays. You really surrounded yourself with homophobics. It was no coincidence that you went to that school because you first went to the ex-gay ministry saw the college inquired and attended. Lots of details missing and what stories behind them. It is interesting to hear you point out how a guy became your best friend. What is it with ex-gay leaders they need a male to bond with to take care of the missing relationship they would have if remained gay? Seems all ex-gay leaders gets their fantasy friend doesn't it?
God had heard me and was answering my prayers. His desire was not just to take away all my problems, but to provide the Body of Christ to come along side to support and encourage me. It was through being open and sharing my struggle with others that I began to have my real needs fulfilled.
^i^ You could have gotten the followship at a gay church. How do I know and what is my credibility of recognizing believers? I spent 11 years never missing a service of any kind including all the workshop seminars at Assemblies of God churches. I spent 13 more year with lots of time at Assemblies. I spent five years going every Sunday service and Sunday school meeting taking groups of 20 or so to various Christian churches. I spent 7 years 5 of which were in regular attendance of MCCs I been to Dignity, Integrity, and other denominations several times. Jesus is the same every where. I am Pentecostal and on TV weekly so I can't attend like I'd like with out the homophobic attacks because it doesn't take long before a pastors threatens me at his church if I go to worship there. But there is plenty of the body out there to support and encourage you, How do you make gay sin because you go to a homophobic church? Jesus is with the gay churches.
I continued to volunteer at the Portland Fellowship and to walk in submission to God. Suddenly, I could see the intense emotional needs for male friendship were driving my desires. But slowly, through positive male friendships, my homosexual desires began to fade away. Awesome lessons were learned and powerful healing took place.
^i^ So you define your intense emotional need for males is the evil in you? Tell me then what is the intense emotional need that drive a straight person to the opposite sex? If you don't have this then how can you say you are straight. You see being gay give you the inter sanctum of the straight world of sexual expressions. Straights confide completely freely about their most intimate sexual desire and fantasies and real life experiences and they even confide to you after they find out you are gay these same things, Straights just seem to need to tell someone all about the sexual lives and relationship and all the moods and emotions surrounding this. It doesn't matter if they are married or have fiancées they still are quite detailed about their lives. They have an intense emotional need to have sex with the opposite sex. I have also found woman are about as free talking to me about their intense emotional needs for the opposite sex. Do you have what straights have? Hey whether you are married or not straights have this intense need to gock at all the opposite sex. You felt the need to look at men because of the natural and nature of Rom 26-27:
5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; "physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591.
^i^ 18-32 explains in detail that straight adults are what we start out with and these adults carve gods to worship turning their backs on God who they use to know. God made them able to chose the gross sexual expression such as orgies and same sex sex far away from any consideration of a marriage type relationship. Then because they made these gads and got involved with fertility temples God also made it visible to see the evil non-sexual behavior as results. This doesn't describes gays at all. Have you ever heard of gays that were straight first then after making gods to worship became so involved with sexual temple worship and that where are the gays that behave like 28-32? You yourself said at 14 you knew you were gay. Were an adult? Did you before you found out you were gay made fertility gods? Did you then go out and murder, hate your parent, hate God, and be generally an evil person? No you did none of these things and what's more you were always generally law-abiding except for fooling around with alcohol and drugs. Most of this seems to be because of depression. Your weren't evil. Paul when talking could see the Fertility Temple down the road from the statue of the unknown god who he used to reveal the living God. Well the meaning of natural and nature here means if you were to assume it is talking about gays is first a very enjoyable straight sex life already was in your past and you were an adult full straight had and having sex which you loved with the opposite sex. Suddenly you tried same sex sex and this has a 95% probability that it was at a fertility cult temple's orgy session. Now tell me is gay sin by Rom 1:26-27. History confirms what I am saying that this did in fact happen in Paul's day. He knew it. Verse 18-25 should convince it is not talking about gays. Verse 28-32 should persuade beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is not talking about gays. FACT gays are confirmable beneficial citizens to society in every way. This nature and natural also has a significant unexpected proof the gay is not sin built into it. It says that you are born "seed" as gay or straight or bisexual, etc. we are talking about the main issue gays. But here says you are born as you are. If gay that will trace back as far as you can recall in some recognizable way. If straight likewise. Same with bisexuals. So you will be who you were born to be. You can't change that and if you did you would be what 26-27 implies about going against your nature. If you are straight and had gay sex it is a sin for you, if you are gay and had straight sex the same is so. Now the other word explains how this is insured. Your instincts basically forces you to take note of who you are sexually. If you are gay and fight it you may just try to sneak in some gay porn on the side. But usually you can't help yourself even to the point that someone could tell that your are looking at the same sex more than as a passer by. Your description of intense emotional drive is this beginning to get out of control. The longer you avoid it the more it will return with a vengeance. The only date I saw was 1990 and it seems some years had past before you began thinking you were better off now. So actual you are very ripe for a worst bout of intense emotional drive that you ever thought possible. I was concerned about Doug Houck of Metonia in Seattle where Exodus has a headquarters. He had already reached a long term as a ex-gay leader and still professing a degree of freedom, but after a TV program where he gave a 30 minute testimony and then some more years went by I read in the Seattle Gay News that he was caught in the act and a friend of mind even told me he saw down getting into a car at a gay bar. Yes it was true he did slip as I did call the ministry. He was fired from the ministry he founded and was sent on a sabbatical to try to get back on track again. He really had a lot to lose, but that "phusikos" was still telling him he is gay and you can't fight it off without consequences.
One of the greatest steps I made in the change process began one night with my Dad. We set up a time where just he and I could go out to dinner and talk--straight from our hearts. For the first time, my dad and I shared with each other the most personal things in our lives. I felt a new connection to him--one that began to take away some doubt and uncertainty about our relationship.
^i^ What does this have to do with "gay is sin"? Any person that had problems with dad can improve and heal their mental state by nice long intimate talks with loved ones. Why is it that so-called ex-gays make this kind of healing part of being delivered of being gay? Your based for deliverance is extremely flawed because the BIBLE does not say gay is sin, so you are creating future problems for yourself and others for washing the surface of your problem with an otherwise ordinary family problem that you worked out a little better.
In January of 1994, I became part of the Fellowship staff. I wanted the opportunity to tell people that change was possible and hopefully reach teenagers with the good news of freedom from a life dominated by sin.
^i^ Well we have a date that you became officially involved. 4 years has gone by. If you are gay you are half way to finding you were wrong about the gay issue, if you are bisexual, that is another issue, it could stay hidden somewhat longer or until divorce and if you are in the 50% that don't divorce other problems you don't expect will occur.
I continued to mature over the next few years working in ministry and attending classes to complete my degree in Biblical studies. One day, while hanging out with some friends at the coffee shop of the Bible college, I looked across the table and noticed a beautiful young woman. Her smile and friendly nature attracted my attention. With the encouragement of my friends, I got up the nerve to ask her out. She slowly became my first real girlfriend.
^i^ You tell us it wasn't that you were attracted, but that friends told you go for her. 1994 plus few years means 1997. You met her in 1997 this year?
Amy knew nothing about homosexuality except that it was weird. But her love for the Lord enabled her to understand this confusing issue. Through her desire to know me better and learn what I do, she participated in the 8-month Portland Fellowship program.
^i^ Her life was towards gays was based on its weird? In 1997 you met someone that hasn't the slightest knowledge concerning gays, not even that is was sin or any Bible to back it up? But you got her into an anti-gay environment for a quick 8 month hate gay campaign. I am brutal here to show you the consequences of you actions. She now has been taught only one side of this issue and she has a motive of dating you so you have to be straight for that to work. But this cost her to flatly declare all gays as living in sin unless they change and be straight or stop sex all together. I bet you never add up the results of your actions. You are hardly changed and now you are involving a women who latter you may hurt? It got to be only a matter of months since you met her unless your wording of this testimony is faulty on its timeline. That's easy to do I guess, but just this year?
A year-to-the-day from the night of our first date, I took Amy to Multnomah Falls--the spot where my dad had proposed to my mom. I dropped down on one knee and asked Amy to be my wife. She was so startled, that I almost dropped her ring over the bridge! Thankfully, she said yes.
^i^ Just as I thought your timeline was off. Aren't you the romantic one. I guess using your parent's spot helps you feel you are doing right. But if you fail it may backfire. I am not trying to condemn your marriage. Great if it works. What I am saying is why do you have to lie about gays. Why are you involved so heavily into telling other people that come to ex-gay ministries that gay is sin? Why? WHY? WHY? You do not base it on the Bible. There is tons of information with intense research showing you are very wrong, yet you are so caught up into this lie that gay is sin. WHY? So far to this point your are still struggling, now you are married. Tell me how marry books have you read concerning gays that marry? This can come back to haunt you as much as 30 years down the road before you are compelled to deal with your supposed delivered state.
Amy and I were married on March 15, 1997, in a beautiful ceremony at Community Bible Fellowship. Our friends and loved ones were right by our sides supporting us the whole way through. We entered marriage with an incredible honeymoon in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
^i^ Lets add today as of my comments is coming up on December. 9 months. Lets see what time does, are you going to buck the statistics? So if you have loved one standing by you, doesn't have a thing to do with gay is sin or not. Many gays have exactly the same kind of ceremonies and if you have the money you can stay anywhere in the world for a honeymoon. Are you trying to say straights that can't afford it has less a honey than you? Or bragging you are well off or parent paid for it. You just finished getting a degree from Bible college. Where did your money come from? According to your testimony we can't tell you are from a rich family and no indication of a job during this time. So we're are left with maybe some how you did have plenty of money from parents of the Portland fellowship paid you well or it was donated or you scraped every penny you could together. Finances always is an issue too you know. The nicer the honeymoon the greater the fall you know. I certainly hope it continues to work, but don't say gay is sin. You are a baby at understanding a thing about the gay issue. God has a plan that how can you know? Read some of my writing on the web to find out more.
Christ is truly a God of mercy and grace. Strangely enough, I am now very grateful to have experienced homosexual struggles. When I submitted them to God, I gave Him permission to mold and shape me into the man I am today. I am thankful He chose me to help reach out to hurting and lost people, and am thankful He granted me the desires of me heart. In Him, there are no secrets. He truly is a great and Mighty God!
^i^ Yes, you indeed gave God permission to make you into the person he wants. But this did not come because one day you said God I gave you permission to change me to be straight or what ever words you said, but is came just like every Christian alive. When you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior you are giving him permission to do what ever he likes to you. He will not be any other than a gentleman to you until the DAY the censor is thrown down. At that time he will do as he had wanted to do since he died and rose. He wants to answer the prayers of those innocent people accused by the Church wrongly. The Church has being persecuting innocent people ever since Jesus rose. God reserved a DAY which is almost here so Jesus can go to the innocent people and stand up publicly for them, for all that have died and all that are alive that are being persecuted by the Church. The Bible is full of this coming DAY. What can you do now but reject anyone that tells you that soon and very soon answers will flood down from Heaven concerning gays. You will soon have review every step your life took while believing gay was sin. You may have kids by then, but you will have to give account. Why didn't you study? All your Bible degree gave you nothing on the other side of this issue. I have looked into many colleges concerning their teaching on gays at best they don't teach any thing, just say at times the assumption gay is sin. You never once in all you testimony ever spent even a minute of your life checking out the validity of the 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine. You just accepted it whole heartedly. I had my TV program on in Portland for several years. So maybe you have accidentally tuned me in . Portland has many Gay Christian groups. I went to a Pentecostal gay church there once and also MCC of Portland. You have plenty of help on the other side. You still do. Why is it so hard for ex-gay leaders to venture into the other side of the story. I read plenty of reports from ex-gay ministries condemning the other side. I have 24 years experience with both sides of the story. I have face to face contacts with the authors of the gay side. I am not a Christian to believes lies or justify my sins as many homophobes proclaims about the other side. You go spend years in gay Christian groups, you spent years reading and studying all sides of the story and you will find gay is not sin. You will find the anti-gay side is full of lies everywhere you turn. Where in your testimony did you spend one phone call to a gay counseling hotline? Portland has a well established gay support help network way before your concerns seems to have developed. I BEG YOU TO FIND AN EX-GAY LEADER'S TESTIMONY THAT REPRESENTS TRUE GAYS NOT SOME PATHETIC MISERABLE CHILD THAT NEVER GREW UP THAT NEVER KNEW A THING ABOUT THE GAY COMMUNITY EXCEPT THE DRUG AND ALCOHOL, OR THAT HAS NEVER SPENT A MINUTE RESEARCHING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY. If you know of an ex-gay leader that has a real testimony please send it to me.
My Comments onTaking off the Mask by John A.
A very common beginning to an Ex-gay leader's testimony. They always seem to have such miserable childhood's. Why do they have to say this is a common trait of gays?
Taking off the Mask
by John Paulk
My parents divorced when I was five. My dad took my sister and me to a park, knelt down beside us, and told us good-bye. For the rest of my childhood, I lived with a continuous insecurity that the people I loved would always walk out of my life.
^i^ A prelude. I have been in correspondence with John Paulk so I have an extra dash of his life to add to my comments.
Around other boys, I felt terribly insecure and different. And because I wasn't good in sports and was effeminate, they called me names like fag, queer and sissy.
I started drinking alcohol when I was 14. I drank to numb the pain inside and to escape from my feelings of self-hatred and inadequacy. Then, when I was 15, a girl from school told me about Jesus Christ while we were talking on the phone one day. I believed everything she said about the Bible, and, after hanging up the phone, I knelt down and asked Jesus to come into my life. I sought him fervently after that, but since no one else in my family was a Christian, I fell away after six months.
^i^ This is an ordinary condition of many straights as they grow up. Its not a great condition drinking while so young, but this is an all to common issue. It is not, however, a precursor to turn out gay or an evidence that gay is evil. YOU still are effeminate aren't you? Here is an excerpt from a report written by Surina Khan. Anne Paulk's husband John, another ex-gay who still looks much like the queen he says he used to be, sits in the audience while his wife tells us about her experience growing up as a tomboy. So the Vice-President Exodus International North America still looks as queeny as he always did. He might be in a straight marriage now, but, God sure didn't make him less a queen by one eye witness reporter. Hmmmm. You fell away in just 6 months from your new faith. WHY? Is Jesus unable to help you in spite of the non-Christian atmosphere around you? Why so casual about falling away? You now depend on Jesus for your so called deliverance, this same Jesus that did not help you from falling. Does Jesus need others to keep you in your faith? Look how callously you imply that Jesus can deliver you from being gay, but he can't at all help those that come to him as you said, " I sought him fervently after that". In my case there was little support for my new faith in Christ Jesus. But Jesus was more than able to keep me to himself. I never once blinked since I accepted him almost 24 years ago. Now if I go to a church within short order I am jumped on by the pastor because he saw me on TV. I am not very welcomed in many churches, but Jesus welcomes and never sends me away.
When I was a senior in high school, a friend took me to a gay bar for the first time. A whole new world opened up to me. All the attention I got from other men was overwhelming. I soon fell in love with a guy named Curt. Our sexual relationship seemed so natural, and I slipped into the gay lifestyle and let go of my childhood dream of having a wife and family. But my relationship with Curt began to deteriorate and we split up after a year. Once again I lost someone who I thought would stay with me forever. Our break-up was so hard on me that I dropped out of college and moved back home with my mother.
^i^ First of all, you should not have gone to a bar at that age causing others to perhaps break the law with you. Did you tell your first love you were "jail bait"? That isn't at all the issue here though. You followed you heart to fine someone to meet, just like every human would. You choices were limited as to where you cam meet someone and so when the chance came you took it. The sin is charged to the Church as they formed the doctrine 700 years ago that gave you little appropriate choices to make on where you could meet someone to love. The fantasy childhood dream in a conditioning not a real desire of your heart. Ever since you were born from every angle the straight marriage is powerfully imaged into your life at every turn. The idea was your childhood dream, not the straight aspect of it. Like my brother told me once. At first he thought he felt so sad because I'd be missing what he had with his wife. Then he caught himself and realized that I would miss nothing of a family life. And indeed I have missed nothing. If kids were important my first lover of 10 years had 3 kids which lived with us. They are all married now in straight marriages. Gay couples have every bit of that childhood dream of a relationship you say you " let go of my childhood dream". HEY! "SLIPPED"? How do you slip into a lifestyle. You chose a lifestyle. If you like dancing you go to dancing places. If you are into country you go to those kinds of places. If you like the arts, your lifestyle will be around that, etc. GAY LIFESTYLE??? What's that? This idea that being gay is a lifestyle is crazy and not fact. For every one straight or gay has a lifestyle. Christians you should find going to church and Christian events more in their past time, Catholics would differ somewhat than others. SEX is SEX straight or gay and you would have sex as SEX no matter what your lifestyle. You blame CURT why? What did he just start eroding away and parts of his body began falling off? How did he deteriorate? Maybe you were deteriorating. Why are you the good person here and not him? You fell all apart afterwards and dropped out of college. Maybe you let him down once to often, huh? You quit God once before when you had no family to help you stay faithful. Life can be hard. Curt could have become a bad husband for you. Life is this way. 50-60% of marriages end up in divorce this includes a similar rate for Christians too. It is tough in relationships. The Church has failed considerably in ministering to families. The Church first promotes the sins, then the grace, but re-instates the sin again and so it's congregations are confused on how to live a relationship. No one teaches us about fights and arguments. No one teaches about sexual problems. It's a learn as you go thing except if you make mistakes you are going to hell or living in sin. Jesus still is there for you if you let him. He never left you when you left him. He was there for you when Curt deteriorated in front of your face. You just thought he wasn't. The Bible told you he was there, it didn't tell you that when trouble come that he's leave. Though you felt the hurts we all feel, Jesus is there. It's mostly by faith, had he been so plain and direct where would your faith be. It is suppose to be that even at the moment of the most severe pain and death coming and no sign of Jesus you still believe and not wavier. It is also really neat and wonderful when Jesus answers so quick it makes your head spin. I get a lot of both. You forget the instant answers no matter how dramatic when the hard times comes when answer are far and few between. Faith is your strength. It will get you through till the end. The Days a head will be far worse than any you have known and faith alone will get you through, because answer will not come, but death all around you flows to your waist. It is the faith believing God that will win the crown. Had you stuck by Jesus he would have led you to the truth earlier than he will. NOTE: you do not have truth about gay yet, if you still hold gay is sin.
My drinking increased, and I became so miserable that I tried to take my life. Then, due to my poor self-image and lack of money, I started working as a male prostitute. I'd be dropped off at a hotel room and sell my body for $80 an hour. By the end of that summer, I was emotionally burned out. I remember crying myself to sleep after I came home from allowing myself to be sexually used all night.
^i^ Again, Jesus was with you every minute, every second of every prostitution you committed. Though the Church condemns you in that Jesus never would have uttered a condemning word. Time would heal you with Jesus at your side. You never gave Jesus a chance in those days. Because you were so miserable doesn't make gay a sin. It would have to be the Word of God specifically condemning gays. There is not one word against gays. It does condemn a gang of straights that intended rape and murder, but this is not gays or gay behavior. Remember what you said? " Our sexual relationship seemed so natural" Why did it seem so natural? How did it change now so it seems so unnatural? When you fall out of love with someone straight or gay the sex can never be the same when those individuals. Your love died. Many fight so hard to re-kindle that dead love. And sometimes it appears to be rekindled and they give the credit to God. In some cases this is so, but far too many the love died and the sex can not be right again. This does not make gay or straight sin. It just means love died. You can FORGIVE that person and love them as a person even a friend. Divorcing is sin, but with conditions. Supposedly only adultery is allowed for divorce, but most divorces aren't for adultery, but you just didn't love anymore. So most Christian divorces aren't even under the adultery clause if we accept that as a legitimate cause for divorce. But there are facts many Christians divorce and appear in all good relationship with the Lord. Where do we apply the letter concerning divorce. Most church ignores it all together and find other sins to condemn like condemning gays. There is nothing wrong with crying yourself to sleep when in such pain. Jesus is nearby and even in the darkest moments that seem so hopeless there is still hope. To blame yourself to be living in sin because the church told you is not of GOD. If you were in sin a way would be found. Your pain was generated by the Church not God or Jesus. Life is complicated and you can't go around saying this bad thing proves something. The rain falls in due season on the just and the unjust and so does all kinds of hurts.
Another significant event happened that summer. At a gay bar, I saw a male friend dressed like a woman. His feminine appearance looked so real. I was fascinated and one night he put makeup and a wig on me. I was astonished to see a beautiful "woman" looking back at me.
Over the next three years I threw everything into being the best woman I could. I was proud to be a drag queen and even adopted the name "Candi." Soon I became popular as a female impersonator, not just locally but in neighboring states as well. But inside I still hated myself. One night on the dance floor I said to God, "I know you can help me--someday I'll come back to you."
^i^ It seems to me God was with you. He never left. How can you say that being so popular and enjoying it was not of God? The guilt that made you say someday you'll come back to God was not of God, but of a condemning Church haunting you. Hmmm! I think I have seen a "Candi" before????? I have talked with several such people and heard their stories. Though that is not my cup of tea it simple is not sin. There are 2 verses in the Bible used to condemn men wearing women's clothes. Both actually in spite of the Church's wish don't have anything to do with TVs, TSs, & TGs
. The fact of history is they had everything to do with "sodomites" (temple prostitutes) who often cut their ding dong off and dressed as women to perform as fertility cult prostitutes to their nearly 100% straight clients. Candi must be a popular name I think some by that name performed in Seattle's clubs.
In October 1985, my psychologist confronted me about my heavy drinking. I began attending AA meetings. After six months of sobriety, my head began to clear. One day I put all of my dresses, high heels, wigs, jewelry and makeup into a cardboard box and threw it into a dumpster. "Candi, I don't need you anymore. I'm saying good-bye" I said. My drag friends tried to convince me that I'd be back.
^i^ Do you think being alcoholic is a factor in gay is sin? You were sick from it seems every angle. You rejected God making you a star. You had a psychologist like any sick person. I certainly hope you didn't toss Candi out based on Church thinks it's sin. You sobered and what thought process occurred. Did your clear mind tell you Church doctrine against gays? Did your clear mind say to you dressing as a woman is sin? Or did you finally just could be yourself as is, however dressing as a woman may be you. You current body gestures still is reported by observers to be a queen. I haven't seen you, but you can't hide a thing like that. I just plain don't care what you say, if you walk it you are it no matter how you deny it.
Very shortly after that, a college pastor from a nearby church asked if he could talk to me. He came to my apartment and told me about Jesus Christ. I stopped him after twenty minutes and said, "I know all about the Gospel. I used to be a Christian when I was 15. But I was born gay, so forget it!"
^i^ Well at least you started out right with him, but you didn't have to forget Jesus, just the anti-gay message he was about to spout off.
"No, you weren't," he answered. Then he read from Genesis 2: "And God created man...male and female... And God saw all that he had made, and behold, it was very good." The truth came shining through. I was convinced that homosexuality was not something I was born with or something I had to stay in. That week I dug out my Bible and started to read it again. After wrestling with the decision for days, I knelt down beside my bed. "Lord, I don't know how to get out of homosexuality, but I will follow you. No matter how difficult it gets, I'll never turn away from you again." It was February 10, 1987. I had finally found someone who would never leave me.
^i^ See that pastor lied to you. Yes, God did make Adam then Eve out of a cell from the rib from Adam's side. I am not sure how easy it is to fine the more accurate Hebrew rendering of :
6763 tsela` (tsay-law'); or (feminine) tsal` ah (tsal-aw'); from 6760; a rib (as curved), literally (of the body) or figuratively (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, literally (of a person) or figuratively (of an object or the sky, i.e. quarter); architecturally, a (especially floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collective, i.e. a flooring):
KJV-- beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).
^i^ but I have heard it taught by experts and so it is available somewhere. God indeed create Adam and eve to populate the Earth. It worked to the tune of 6 billion today. The 10% gay population never dented God's plan. God did make gays gay. You just resist the facts. And accept those that hate gays. Now listen, because these that say gay is sin say they love the gay person does not mean they love the gay person. Love is a behavior. You hated yourself and had no learning of the Word of God and never even attempted to review the facts. Now in your testimony you are going to a homophobe for answers to your serious questions. Tell me why you did not go to gay Christian counseling. Why didn't you review the success of ex-gay ministries? Of course then you were a naïve young man full of self hate and a miserable life. When you had a space of happiness you rejected it. Did you even once question this pastor's knowledge? How did he become correct? What struck you that he was correct? Why would you accept a strangers word for the Bible? Guess what? When you read:
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (KJV)
^i^ Well at least one place they both were called Adam. Does this mean God created gays? So, we can use a verse out of context to make the Bible say what we want. However, we know by reading all of the Bible it was Adam and Even. Well, now, where is Adam and Steve? You know the joke homophobes love to say God did not created because everyone knows God created Adam and Eve, right? But we have scientific fact. Do you know why science works? Why can mankind go to the moon? Because God made everything including physics. Our bodies are so fantastic because it works because it follows a blueprint. We are not magic. God wrote our every physical attribute. It is all encoded by God to work and it can be manipulated because it is designed based on physics and what ever you can learn thru science. Some scientists are looking for the gay gene. WHY? Because some Christians say it is sin and so if you can change a embryo by taking out the gay gene then you will have a straight person. You don't have to believe anything about gene manipulation do you. You already know what I am saying because we grew up with it. Should their be a gene to manipulate guarantees gays are born that way. So There are three camps. Those that are smart enough to know this is true and so they want to manipulate the gay gene out. The other camp hates every possibility of this theory, because if true then gays are born that way and they would be force to review their doctrines against gays. Then there are those that reject scientific fact by saying the Bible says gay is sin and so gay is sin. This lot is the most stupid because they reject truth. The Bible indeed is truth, but is in the hands of the readers and scholars and as much as one want to research. Christians used to believe the world flat, and that it is a serious sin to teach blacks to read and how many other thousands of past thought to be sins that are proven false interpretations. What I am saying is Jesus is real and so is life. The Bible is real and so is life. If gay is sin then it can be compared to the details that the Bible describes. Tell me John Paulk was this you behavior?
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (KJV)
^i^ Which one do you pick out? Sorry, this is not a multiple choice questionnaire. These few verses is the resulting behavior of the offenders in the above context. Maybe you committed a few of the above. Maybe you call " without natural affection" gayness. But even in your miserable testimony, you did some pretty good things and you always were seeking to do good and to do good to others. You entertained lots of people, by your own words there was no evil to lead these astray, but you had fun and it was enjoyed by many. YOU WERE A STAR! You did not commit these verses. Your own miserable life full of guilt thinking you lived in sin because you were gay, never ever committed the proof description of the resulting behaviors of those in verse 26 - 27. This is real truth. The Bible does not lie and can not make gay sin by describing evil behavior that result by the offenders. Gays would have to be committing 28-32 as a common trait. That's why I say there are 600 million test cases in the world. Check it out. Gays in fact do a extreme amount of good. The military commonly honors them when it doesn't know they are gay. WHY? You should hear what my commander wrote about me in my appraisal reports. If I am so evil why in that short year in Thailand I was loved by some 200 Thai workers. What evil part of me made them love me as a human. Why the same true when I worked in the care giving field? Why is it that people are attracted to me for my consolation? I am a nobody, but I do not behave as 28-32 depicts. If this verse condemns gay then where is the resulting behavior in gays in real life. You can't sit there and say it matters not what happens in real life, but only what the Word of God says. The Word of God is living and so are you and me and the 600 million gays. So what do you do after talking to a homophobic pastor? You get on your knees to God and what do you pray? Do you ask for truth? No you say "I don't know how to get out of homosexuality". What a prayer. What choice you give God. Well, God will not give you a answer that gay is sin or not, but he will get you the answer since you insist it is sin now and HE won't magically change your mind. So He lets you go through many years in a circle until you learn the truth. How long will it take? For most 1 to 2 years, for ex-gay leaders 6 to 8 years. Bisexuals are a strange bunch they can live quite a while as the straight side of the bisexuality fighting gays all the while. I just don't get it? Why do bisexuals think they have much a say for gay people? Isn't it strange? Bisexuals (calling themselves gays that want to become ex-gays) can have sex, but ex-gays (meaning real gays that take counseling to become ex-gays) must be celibate. You can play as long as you like with your games concerning statistics that Exodus produces, but there are just to many sources every where to show otherwise, that bisexuals simply have sex with the opposite sex and gays stop having sex. God is so good isn't he? Again, God is real, Jesus is real, The Holy Spirit is real and life is real. You can't make life be a lie. Yes people live lies all the time, but we are talking about gays aren't we? There are just too many facts that tell a different story than the church and just to many Church lies about gays. Why don't you see it, are you blind? Hey, if you really want to be straight go a head and try, but don't lie and say the Bible says gay is sin. Of course NOW you have to say that because you will be fired if you don't.
Something inside me was different now. At a gay AA meeting, the topic of whether homosexuals go to heaven came up. "It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight," I told them, "If we believe in Jesus Christ we'll go to heaven." My friends were shocked. They'd never heard me say such a thing before. Most of them I never heard from again.
^i^ There must be a lot missing here????? I know a little about the various Aas. I never attended, but my sister did for the sake of her husband, and I knew gays that went to the gay version. You lost me somewhere????????????? AA is not Christian!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are a higher power (any god will do or master). Sometimes Christians go there and they would understand you instantly, but the rest ho hum.... God is just another higher power. If you mouth off about God in a secular meeting which AA is period, then you will get the cold shoulder. Didn't you know that? What is your point. This however the first hint that you had exposure to some kind of help though far far from Christian. I have no qualms with any AA they seem to have their place. Personally I drank for fun some, been drunk more times than I can count. I hated the hang over so one day I quit and never drank a drop again. I did however accept Jesus some 27 days later and had a reason then, but it never was a issue. I think Christian don't need a life time AA to maintain, but lots do, that's find too. So that day you became a nut to them, welcome to a closer walk with Christ....
Over the next year, I struggled quite a bit. I had gotten rid of all my homosexual paraphernalia and pornography, but I was terribly afraid of rejection by straight men, even at my church. During that time I found the name of a Christian ministry that reached out to homosexuals. I contacted the ministry and eventually moved to the town where it was located. As I was leaving, my mother said, "John, you've worked hard to change your life this past year. I'm so proud of you." "I only had Christ to lean on," I told her. "He did the changing--not me."
^i^ You got rid of your "homosexual paraphernalia and pornography"???? What is " homosexual paraphernalia and pornography"??? Is there "heterosexual paraphernalia"???? Let me look around my house, . . . . hold on a minute . . . . . . . . . . Hmmmmm? Can't find anything I can call " homosexual paraphernalia". What is it anyway??? Once in a while I have the Seattle Gay News paper, is that it? What is straight paraphernalia? Diapers? "pornography!" So is there is a difference between straight and gay " pornography"???? I just figured whether gay or straight some people dig porno and that is a completely different issue than saying gay is sin or not. Why is it that ex-gay leaders always must use porn as an example that that is part of the sin of being gay? What is unusual about straight men could be a source of hating gays? Again, why it is such a concern for ex-gay male leaders to need to be concern how straight MEN may or may not feel about them????? When I read these ex-gay leader's testimonies on the part of the extreme need of acceptance of straight MEN it sounds like they are just wanting to hold onto their MALE attraction and if these straight MEN accept them then they have a hold onto their gayness they claimed to be delivered from. So, did it feel good to have a homophobic mother feel proud of your efforts to become straight? Would she have accepted you otherwise? How did she treat you when you were "Candi"? To me, though I am not at a lot of ease around men as women, you did seem like a much healthier person and much sounder mind. Now you are just a pawn of the 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine. Hey, Mr. Paulk! God is not changing you to straight you are just going against your nature. You have not even once hinted to HOW God is changing you. You sought what you have not letting God do a thing. You see there is a consistent way God moves. You are behaving in guilt and trying to find out how you can justify this guilt. Justifying it means you must surround yourself with those that think gay is sin so you can have a constant feed back to satisfy this guilt you have. Had you sought the truth you would have been set free a long time ago. Now, you have an uphill battle. There is no top for you. Full brown bisexuals have a leveling off point to maintain themselves for longer periods of time. Yours will be most certainly a grade, an incline upward, not to a mountain top, but an ever struggle as you fight against your nature. If it appears appeased at times, don't believe it, it's a disguise that will hit with a vengeance suddenly. Jesus never asked you to change. I will be doing your wife's testimony next and will see if this applies to her as well. My first impression is, doesn't that take the cake. A bull dyke and a queen married. I wonder if you are that pitiful couple I saw on TBN a few years ago? There was a couple that fit this " bull dyke and a queen" weird what ever on TBN once. Such a hypocrite, such a lie... Do you think you are any kind of witness to the gay community? Who are you both think you are now leaders in the so called ex-gay movement? You aren't delivered. Are you your wife's teacher on how to dress ladylike?
"Paulk shows up for the class outfitted in a sweatshirt, sweat pants, sneakers, baseball cap, and knapsack -- looking like the cute, athletic butch dyke she should be"
^i^ Then my guess was taught by you to . . .
Paulk literally transforms herself by taking off her sweatshirt and sweat pants, under which she's wearing a "feminine" T-shirt and jeans. She takes off her baseball cap to reveal how she has grown out her hair to make herself appear more feminine. But the best part is when, while still talking, she begins applying makeup -- and she does it all: foundation, blush, mascara, lipstick, eyeliner, and eye shadow. And of course, her nails are painted bright red.
^i^ If this isn't enough . . .
Paulk says she "wanted to behave more like a woman, look more like a woman."
^i^ What if you two are just doing another SHOW?? But this time in role reversal. You are dressing the part of a dyke and she a queen. From miles around you look out of place as a man so you look like you are still in drag. You are a queen act like it, don't condemn it.
With that Christian ministry's help, I discovered that my concept of God was distorted. I had a difficult time accepting the reality of his total love and acceptance. The concept of being loved for just being me was totally incomprehensible. But God wanted to change my identity as a man. He did, and over time I no longer doubted his acceptance of me. I was also finally able to forgive my parents for their emotional neglect and the ways I felt they had rejected me.
^i^ God does love you as is, and he does wants you not to sin and he completely forgives you if you do as long as His Son is you Lord and Savior. SO WHAT about your parents! If we want to hear about how daughters and sons who hated their parents, even rightly so, and now they forgave them, those testimonies are a dime a dozen. Jesus is in that business you know. You are telling us that God is delivering you from the sin of homosexuality so don't compare your other sins as examples to your belief that gay is sin. You can associate that you did indeed have many many common Christian sins to overcome as any Christian does, but to just haphazardly include it as though it is part of the gay package is sick ten times over and does not relate to any kind of truth. Of Course God accepts you. AND he did want to change your perception of a man. You have a sick perception and still do. Man is not the Marlboro man and if he was you are a hopeless critter aren't you? A very large number of the human race of men do not fit what you are trying to say should be the identity of man. Your concept of God still is distorted. You think he goofed when he made you gay. You believe CHURCH doctrine that is 700 years old and call it Bible.
My process out of homosexuality has been slow, but solid. My male friendships have eventually grown to a place where I feel secure in my masculinity and know who I am among other men. And at some point, even though Christ had filled the empty places of my heart, he also gave me the desire to have someone else there. In 1991 I fell in love with a beautiful, godly woman who had also come from a homosexual background. We were married in 1992. I cried all the way through our wedding vows, knowing Christ was fulfilling my dream. God's transforming power was so evident during our wedding that my mother and stepfather prayed to receive Jesus Christ that night. In the past, I could never say, "I'm a man." But now I'm a different person, a "new creature in Christ." I can be loved just because I'm his.
^i^ You feel secure in your masculinity??? As of this report from the anti-gay ministry's 21st national conference you were still very queeny so whose perception are you going by? You still have the men in your life that you can be close to and get away with it by calling it a normal male bonding thing of straight men as it were. There is a vast difference. I bet if one got to close you heart still flutters and you would hesitantly move away from a too close encounter or bump. Straights would not even give it a second thought or they would deck you if they suspected more was in it. Do you have these as it were straight masculine tendencies. You never will and straights always will. You have to always apply attraction to a too close accidental brush that put you in HIS space. How wide is that space? 1 foot, 2 feet, 3 feet, 10 yards before your fuzzies start? Yes, you fell in love with your bull dyke wife, we know. How sweet. This date means you do fit the time span . So were you on TBN? I'd like to know because this can add a great deal about you to what I am saying. I will have to look at your picture again and see if its familiar. If not no doubt much of the same would apply anyway. If you think Christ was feeling your dreams, he was, but not as you suspect. He took care of a process that is not finished yet. He has not forgotten the truth at all. He has not forgotten the prayers of untold innocent children persecuted by the Church which you now are a leader in direct persecution, by continuing the lie as a spokes person for the lie. I have not even seen you hint even once in this whole testimony that you have spent a good deal of time ever studying the other side of the story. A true believer that is in obedience of God would be sure to know his subject well if he is to speak against anyone, let alone 600 million people. The day you accepted Jesus was the day you became a new creature and was born again. John Paulk, remember you were only 15 years old then. So, who are you now? Were you born again, again? You were a new creation at 15 and so how come you have become another new creation. Is God mixed up with you? Your doctrine is flaky here you know. You may have backslid, yet that is more an excuse for you than fact. If you are better now then how come you are not up to par on the Bible and Salvation? You can't skim over Jesus' work on the Cross to fit what you think you are today. He did the work when you were 15 and he never left you. I think he did the work in my life before the age of 6 when I rejected him, I didn't know the story then, but he never left me all those years and he brought me back at age 27. You need to know what you are talking about. The Bible also says that though you in all respects are a pillar of a Christian in the Church and very close to Jesus today, if you don't maintain the faith you will fall from Grace a not make it. Many will perish this way. Have you counted the times it is mentioned that you alone must keep you faith till the end. No man can take you from Jesus, and Jesus never will forsake you, but you can not believe God and this will wreck your faith. God SAID and many think now that it is not important what God SAID. He SAID it and it will happen. When it does so many won't believe it possible because they didn't believe what God SAID. He will send many to tell you and you still won't believe. For your sake I hope my few words with you will have prepared you enough that when that day comes you will remember that you can keep your faith in spite of what you see and hear.
In the past, there were many masks I hid behind to protect myself from being hurt again. But now I see that they only stood in the way of God's love reaching through to me. In Jesus Christ I've found the love and acceptance I was looking for all along.
^i^ Today you wear the most hidden mask of them all . . . Sounds like a good fantasy rounding off your life this way, but "gay is not sin" so why now is your life dedicated to a lie? Even if you really wanted to help some change and be straight why must you LIE about the Word of God. If you are ignorant that is not much of an excuse. You have had years to check out the gay Christian outreaches. You have lots of time checking out gay hot lines and gay counseling services. You could have gone to PFLAG and hear a perspective from straights saying gay is not sin. Yet, your whole testimony is surrounded by homophobic resources. The only info you sought was from homophobia. I personally do and have read plenty of anti-gay and ex-gay material. I got one detailed packet nearly an inch thick from L.I.F.E. and plenty of less detailed packets from other ex-gay ministries. Why can it be a rule of ex-gay leaders to get the facts from the sources. You can't possibly tell me you have done this. I have been around to long. You would have to be lying in your teeth to say what is being said in ex-gay ministries about the gay side of the story. Just like so many Christian leaders like to say "The Gay Agenda" as though it is an evil plot to pervert the world and everyone in it. John? Why so many lies from your camp? Did you get my e-mail concerning Bussee and Cooper? Stephan Black told me I should not open my mouth on something I don't know about. I knew the details and that article was only one of many sources. I can't believe Stephan Black tried to tell me it did not happen that way. You know if you ex-gay leaders would just help sick people get better that would be something, but to base your whole ministry on gay is sin. What you have written in your testimony should be embarrassing to you. So much fact is completely missing. Your whole life was based on an assumption that gay was sin. You never questioned it. What does it take. Like a dog you must rub his nose in it to get his attention to the fact he has to do it outside? Does your nose have to be rubbed in the truth so you can see it? Yes, your nose will indeed be rubbed in the truth so you can see it before Jesus returns. Let me explain what it will feel like. Imagine your nose being rubbed along the cement gutter along a city street. You now begin to see some insight what is about to happen in the Christian world.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate. 23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; 24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. (KJV)
^i^ We have reached the last of four levels that God will move to shake His people for what they have done and are doing. God has revealed to me over the last 24 years His Word concerning the Last Days. Don't think I think I am someone special I am nobody. Many others also have received this revelation from God. Most in the Church aren't expecting anything other than a glorious entrance into Heaven, but they have no idea the work yet to be done. Part of what needs to be done is correct the Church of it many wrongs. Jesus has waited for:
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (KJV)
^i^ This has more meaning than generally taught. It can be summed up as Jesus' emotional release as he has waited 2000 years to answer the prayer of the innocently persecuted people by the Church. Very little has Jesus done openly for these people. He by rule could not intervene until that censer is thrown down. The CUP of Church sin had to be filled to the brim before Jesus could answer prayers of long dead persecuted saints by saints and that of the living persecuted. Your childhood guilt came from the Church and God heard every prayer you prayed. I bet if we got the tapes of your prayers many would be for answers concerning your gayness. I am not talking about your prayers after you gave up your fight and just wanted to be changed to straight. Well, now, onto your wife's testimony.
In Christ Jesus
I grew up a in an atmosphere of a standard suburb boy doing all the things considered stereotype that average boys do in this setting. Kind of carefree and invulnerable. I hung out with other good kids and we had lots of fun growing up exploring our world.
Secure in My Feminine Identity
by Anne Paulk
I grew up as a classic tomboy, mostly playing cowboys and Indians or cops and robbers. When I was about four-years old, an event happened which profoundly shook my inner security. A teenage boy approached me sexually, then warned me not to tell my parents. I never said a word, fearful that we'd both get into big trouble. This silence left me to reap a lot of self-inflicted pain, and the whole incident only reinforced my tomboy image. I didn't feel protected or valued as a girl.
^i^ HMMMMM! Not all lesbians were raped, especially at four years old. It would really be nice if ex-gay leaders and wives of ex-gay leaders that are ex-lesbians would make a distinction from the norm. Generally gays and lesbians are not raped and really have any unusual traumatic childhood. Yet, the somewhere over 50 ex-gay leader's testimony I had read no distinction is ever made that they had an unusually miserable childhood and that of being raped. Gays usually have fairly mundane lives growing up and as they find they are gay they learn to deal with the homophobia and difficulty in finding a safe environment to meet someone to share their lives with. Most fair very well considering the abuse the Church dumps on them with their mouths. Now here a lesbian, not just a lesbian, a butch dyke lesbian according to a quote:
"Paulk shows up for the class outfitted in a sweatshirt, sweat pants, sneakers, baseball cap, and knapsack -- looking like the cute, athletic butch dyke she should be"
^i^ Lots of people feel unprotected and they are still straight. So I don't get it? What is this so important to you become a dyke? So you are 4 years old and got raped how did this reinforce your "tomboy" image? Were you a "tomboy" at age 3 or something and since the rape you thought if you were a boy boys would rape you again? Being raped is serious all right, but to blame it on that's why you became a lesbian, I don't think so... Certainly you may hate males, but then go get help for that abnormality. If you are a lesbian solely based on that rape at 4 and so you hated men then chose to love women instead???? Something is wrong here. What actually happens is these women that hate men either marry anyway and live with it or just don't get involved. Turn gay???? No way, at best you may be a bisexual and then can easily deal with your hate for men by always living the gay side of your bisexuality. True lesbians are just that. They aren't hating men and being lesbian to compensate, they just plain are gay. You see the Church has so mess with sexuality without God's approval at all, though they really believe they have God's approval, the result being just about every human on Earth will have sexual problems. Sex is like a bucket shot full of holes. We spend a life time plugging the holes. Sometimes we get enough plugged that we can control the water flow with the spicket, but mostly we just don't understand anything much about sex, but love to preach our ideas. Now maybe I am wrong, you just said you were approached so it maybe he seduced you and you thought you both would get in trouble. Were you both guilty? At four what do you know except the conditioning the Church has already stuffed down your throat.
I also craved special affirmation as a girl from my dad, but couldn't tell him why. For years I believed lies about myself, God and men. And the sexual experience (when I was four) kept me from embracing femininity which, to me, meant being weak and vulnerable.
^i^ You blame everything except the truth don't you. Can't you see you were a butch dyke? Yeh. I know you walked around saying to yourself I won't dress as a woman because some boy will rape me. Tell me about all the straight women that look so butch? Seems like so many women like to look more on the butch side. I get confused even. I would think bunches of straight women were lesbians, if I judged by a stereotype idea of what attire lesbians wore and how the make themselves up. 90% I am wrong as their husbands come out to meet them. Yes, like Ellen joked about "gaydare" there is something about it that does work. You can easily have a high degree of accuracy in guessing whose gay or not. Apparently your husband is still very queeny by his mannerisms and you still the dyke you should be, but sometimes trying to look fem. All this butch fem stuff, so what, but it seems to manner to ex-gay leaders that they look the part of the stereotype straight. Your husband wanted so much to seem masculine and here you crave so much to " embracing femininity" why? Maybe because I am just me and don't care what anyone thinks about what I look like and so I just don't understand where you are coming from. This role playing some men and women whether on purpose or built in naturally shouldn't have a thing to do with gay is sin or not. The Bible is very clear and never says gay is sin.
3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite:
KJV-- effeminate, soft.
^i^ Above is an example why some in the Church says men being effeminate is sin. Of course the Greek sure isn't saying that. An in King James day this word meant "weak and spineless" that is a very different thing than someone so queeny like your husband. There are 2 verses that say dressing like women is sin. BUT this isn't meaning what today we think dressing like women means. Today we say it means: TSs, TVs, & TGs. Then it meant men that were temple prostitutes (sodomites) dressed like women and cut off their ding dong because their clients were straight.
Then I found myself having crushes on some of my girlfriends. I was talented in athletics, so I joined the softball team in high school, but continued to avoid most feminine activities. I didn't feel pretty or lovable.
^i^ How could you find you had crushes on girls? This sounds like your gut instincts saying you like girls. No choice here at all, huh? Were you born gay? Or was it that when you were raped this warped your sex drive into hating men and loving women? Then why most rape victims remain straight? And why are most lesbians rape free? I know, you only look where sick gays go to like ex-gay ministries and so you see all this mental disorder and blame it on being a result of being gay. Hmm. . . Why can't you go to healthy gays so you can get a real good perspective on real life. If all is as you believe then you should find most gays are the sick pathetic thing I am finding ex-gay leaders all have in common with each other. I am not trying to be sarcastic here, it is just a fact about all the testimonies I am reading. When I read gay testimonies and talk with gays whether men, women, TV, TS, TG they have a common thread. Many have had common hate problems that the Church guarantees for gays, lots have been abandon by family just because they are gay. Many had no place to go except the restrooms and parks for one timers, yet a huge number live very ordinary lives very much like most straights. The common thread is they adapted to live in a society that openly hates them, though this attitude is changing rapidly. Most have fairly decent lives as good and happy as any straights. Some may be in slumps, just like straights. Some deal with lots of rejection because they are gay, but again they fair pretty good. They go through bouts of depression as any straight would in any of they ways straights have problems. It is no fun to be sick or in dept, but you heal, and you get out of debt. General life problems is not a stamp of a miserable life if you are gay, but only a passing problem if you are straight. Both hurt and sometimes a lot, both get better. Some really have it good and are blessed, but like straights life goes on in the same general way neither greatly good or greatly bad. Some are sick mentally in that can not adjust to being told gay is sin and buys into this doctrine that is 700 years old. These usually never try to find sources of help except from those that confirm they are indeed sick because they are gay and they need to become straight. These sick gays and sick bisexuals can find there way to ex-gay ministries. Most figure it out that ex-gay ministries don't work and in fact the Bible does not condemn gays at all.
At church, the youth group seemed shallow. I felt disappointed that everyone behaved just like the non-Christian kids at school, and I became disillusioned. Soon I discarded church altogether, and began getting into wild behavior: drinking, dating three boys at one time, and eventually exploring homosexual relationships.
^i^ You know it seems incomprehensible to me that after accepting Christ that anyone can turn their backs on him. How could you discern non-Christian and Christian behavior? Look at you your faith could not keep you close to Jesus. Your parents may have a strict say in what church you attended, but there are good churches out there. On the other hand this should show everyone the state of the CHURCH today. How can the Church condemn gays and it can't even present Christ in a way to keep its younger generation interested in Christ as Lord of their lives. However, your state of turning your back on Christ does not make gay sin. There are plenty of gays that never turned their backs on him. I accepted Christ Jan. 27, 1974 and I have not even for a moment considered in any kind of way to turn my back on the one that gave me eternal live and forgave my sin by dying for me on that Cross. How can you get into wild behavior as you say without Jesus being at the center whether you do something wrong or right? If you are doing something wrong it would have to be because you are seeking him for what to do and you just don't know and the options just isn't clear and so doing wrong which you can't be sure of is all you can do. Jesus never leaves you. When I hear stories of people somehow throwing off Christ for a more worldly way I can't get the picture. When I accepted Christ I was an atheist and in a less than five minute explanation about why he came Earth I totally believed. For many days I could not understand why I believed so strongly in something I completely did not believe in before. From the get go Jesus was personal. How do you turn your back on a personal relationship like Jesus? I just don't understand it at all, but many people seem to not have much of a personal relationship and it must be head knowledge or something. (please note, I do understand in detail much about why you turn your back on Christ and why many other do, but that doesn't make it seem any easier for anyone to leave Christ for any reason). Lets go on to what you say . . . Now we here you dated 3 boys at the same time. Ooohhh what a lesbian you were huh? Just look just a phrase tells us you are a bisexual not a lesbian. There is a vast difference. Lesbians though could have had sex with men never liked the idea and it was more a forced thing based on society until she accepted who she was then gone with the men period. You are telling a different story. The earlier rape must have been something you somehow was sort of consenting to anyway and thought it dirty or at least you got completely over. I bet the term wild party as your meaning intends evil sinful lusty times is quite exaggerated. I have been to a party or two myself. I have been to some pretty wild parties but by whose definition are we using your kind of term? People party. In the same party people can be miles apart in behavior. Bars can be quite a place to get into drugs, but they can be a place where at the same bar no drugs are seem and just a good dance bar. Whose eyes are used? Want the drug culture you can find it, want to meet someone you can, want to dance there you can do it. What is a party? What does wild mean.? Wild can be very good and much fun, to another it is sin just because it is called a party. Want to see a party that will lead to death. Turn on TBN and watch "party time" at Trinity Music City. Just look at all the Christian having a good time as they say in the Lord. This is unto death. It is a departure from what Paul Crouch has been called. Secular parties generally are a place where people find themselves. Most live through this phase. It can be very harmful or leave you with the most wonderful memories to be retold a thousand times. When you say wild, do you mean orgies? Shooting up drugs? Running naked? Or do you mean visiting with friends getting drunk along the way. Getting drunk has many problems, but most live through it. I don't drink at all now but I also would not trade all my drunk days for any thing. When I hear about parties I wish they wouldn't drink, but I did and as a result I know a lot more about life than had I never drank a sip. God has a time for people. Had I gotten saved sooner I would not have what I needed to minister my call today. This is not praising a sinful past, but praising God who taught me in spite of my distance from him then. Your wild party days were at time of growth that you will never have again. If today you look at it as a time of sin and the term "wild" to you tries to put this time into a category the Church loves because it can condemn so many that way, you lose probably the best growth cycle in your life. That period was not controlled by Christian made rules and you can learn about yourself. Of course you don't go back and live that way again, but don't throw out the gemstones God has hidden their for you to find in the days a head.
Then I went to college and met Sara. She seemed so confident and strong as a woman. Men adored her, but they only seemed to ridicule and use me. It was then, in early 1982, I realized my feelings for Sara were sexual. So I decided to look up an old boyfriend to "test" my orientation. Although he was a nice guy, I felt no attraction to him. After that, I decided to pursue my attractions for women. At the suggestion of a gay counselor, I joined the college gay/lesbian group.
^i^ This sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Though at the time it may have made some sort of since to you. It just plain will never be the same with an old bow whether straight or gay. Reading this little test scheme of yours is about the craziest thing I have heard. So what if the guys ridiculed you. Life isn't fair all the time. You are not ever going to be able to compete with some people. One lesbian said you looked like a cute butch dyke. The way you describe Sara may mean she looked like a woman to guys. If you are straight there will be some man for you somewhere. But to be envious of another woman's sex appeal to men is stupid. So you are giving us information about your sick mental state. What does this have to do with "gay is sin"? If you are gay then the gay counseling service was very correct in referring you to a gay college group. Gay organizations are good places for gays to find loving caring relationships out of the bar scene. It will also bring just like any straight group the chance to meet someone that could treat you badly. Straights have lots of problems involving their sex life. Relationships take a great deal of commitment and it could take several before finding one that works. We know that 50 to 60% of straight marriages end in divorce. What is not considered is that dating and breaking up aren't considered divorces. Its easy to develop a fairytale about marriages, but real life says before marriages straight date several people before getting married. These are not counted as marriages so it seems like straights have less sexual partners than gays, but not really if you add in al the dating. Funny, the Church hates to call it dating if its between gays. They just say they 2 men have sex when actual those two men were dating just like straights.
But during one of those meetings, I had a piercing thought, "There really is something wrong with this lifestyle." I was heartbroken by the words that shattered my dreams of finding happiness with a female life- partner. After the meeting, I went home and cried. "God," I prayed, "please show me who you are, and fill the void in my heart."
^i^ What are you saying? Are you saying that piercing thought was GOD? What was wrong with "this lifestyle"? Were you in a group that was quite a way from things you were comfortable with. I have been to many gay groups with uncomfortable atmosphere for me. I just don't go anymore unless there was a reason I was pursuing. I have been to Catholic churches and I feel very much that something is wrong with that lifestyle. Very piercing thought too. I don't condemn Catholics and don't think less of them as know God or not. It just plain isn't right for my Pentecostal background in the Assemblies of God which I feel much more comfortable. So a guilt flesh hit you and this made you condemn gays and begin to think God was calling you out of the "lifestyle"? Lifestyle? What is that. 600 million gays have 600 million lifestyles. Leather is a lifestyle, Christian is a life style, has nothing to do with being gay or straight. You thought some wrong with this lifestyle, but prayed that God would show you who He is????
After that prayer, I began experiencing a new hunger to know Jesus Christ. Within six months, I made a firm decision to forsake homosexuality and follow him. But, unfortunately, none of the leaders on campus or at church knew how to give me hope that my sexual attraction for women would change. My commitment to Christ, however, enabled me to persevere in the face of this discouragement. I immersed myself in Christian activity, although the homosexual attractions never went away.
^i^ Well I was at least hoping you would have returned to Christ by recommitting yourself to him from your back slidden condition. I guess it was a magical come back to Christ. So how did you decide to forsake homosexuality? The Church so against gays, but you could not find any that knew what to do? Here gay is suppose to be sin and the Church loves to preach it, but you had a hard time finding help. You forsook homosexuality, but the attractions never went away????? Immersed yourself in what? Were these activities anti-gay or just church services and Sunday school attendance. Was it learning the Word of God by reading the entire Bible over and over again? Was it going to home Bible studies. Just how did you immerse yourself? I immersed my self in Christian activities when I accepted Christ and continued nearly 15 years until I went on TV with my own program called "Gays For Jesus". Then pastor recognized me and would make in uncomfortable in their church for me. So I don't go as often as I like. I enjoyed MCC for several years, but being Pentecostal there was something missing though God was very real there. Did you in your forsaking of homosexuality research the Word of God on both sides of the issue or did you only pursue anti-gay resources?
Eventually I fell into a sexual relationship with Laura, a Christian girlfriend who, like me, struggled with lesbianism. Laura and I looked to each other for emotional fulfillment. At first, it seemed like many of my childhood dreams were being fulfilled through our relationship. But along with some satisfaction came conviction, deception and emotional instability. Laura became my top priority over work, family and friends. Many areas in our lives suffered as a result. Laura even battled with suicidal thoughts. Then Laura and I tried to remain friends, but stop the sexual part of our relationship. But it never worked, because we never addressed the underlying issues.
^i^ Well so much for forsaking homosexuality, huh? How do you fall into a sexual relationship? I thought you had to do something on purpose like saying yes I'd like that at least? Were you hanging on a ledge and you fingers just gave loose and you fell into sex? You make it sound like it wasn't your fault that it just mysteriously happened and there you were in sex with a woman again. What a confusing paragraph. Of course your lover or spouse takes priority over everything else. That is what it is all about don't you know. Fall in love and live happily ever after. Work never should be first over your lover or spouse. It might be that by working you support your lover or spouse and still your lover/spouse is the priority. Family is also second, though the saying blood is thicker than water applies too. Friends are neat, but when you marry and they are still single you are a different animal and the singles often fade out replaced with other couples. You are not in the market anymore with a lover so things change. Real friends stick together anyway. What were you? Did you abuse her? Did you rule her with an iron rod? Did you lie to her? You sound as if you or her weren't altogether honest with each other and became more incompatible because one of you had a big problem with control or something. So it was good and bad. What is new? Straights have the same troubles. You know these ex-gay testimonies never seem to get a grasp onto real life and blame this on the condition of being gay. As you write this testimony do you now have a grasp on relationships? Just because of a pretty face doesn't make for a good relationship. What is the underlying problem? It is "gay is sin"? This was not the problem. The problem had a name and the name is Anne Paulk who has a personally disorder and needs mental help. You need to take some courses in relationships. It just doesn't come up roses all the time.
Finally, after three months of resisting God, I said a very honest prayer: "Lord, you know that I really enjoy this lifestyle, but I want you to be my first love. I need your help. I need you to change my heart." This prayer marked a major turning point in my life.
^i^ The yo yo effect again. You had already returned to God and prayed a sincere prayer before. You had resisted God, but came back. Now you think you fell away again and need to prey your way back. You just like as the wave rolls huh? You now say in correction "you love being gay" Your assumption was "close to God meant gay is sin".
Shortly after my prayer, Laura and I had dinner with a Christian woman who was a former lesbian. She listened to our story and our questions, and through her we made contact with a Christian ministry solely devoted to helping people overcome homosexuality. The people loved us and cared for us, and eventually Laura and I agreed to give our relationship to God and avoid all contact with each other.
^i^ So far you never spent a moment of time praying about if gay is sin or not, you just assumed it was, never a thought of the Word of God up to this point at least, you broke it off with your lover and being friends didn't work either, but you somehow had dinner together with an ex-gay. We know nothing of this person you call an ex-lesbian. Ex-lesbian means not bisexual. So was she bisexual instead of lesbian? She told you to go to an ex-gay ministry. What did you expect? The people loved us. Hey, they agree you need to change and be straight. You now are in a group that will never give you the other side of the story. The will give you only a distorted view of gays. You are now in a group of people like yourself, mentally sick from childhood and so you will always see testimonies in group counseling that support the all gays have miserable childhoods theory. Now you've added the consistent testimony of ex-gay leaders and ex-gay as 100% have an unhealthy mental attitude towards life and expressly implying all gays have the same kind of childhoods. Now look what's more. If a gay person comes to Christ the first thing he has to do is get rid of his lover for Christ. Anne you are saying that a husband must tell his wife when he accept Jesus as savior to get lost, get out of my life. Yes, you and Laura, though had good relationship (and God could have healed you love with her), it ended up in a shamble. Yet, you are so accepting of Church conditions towards gays. That is to reject your lover. God would never do that ever. In gay testimonies by the ten of thousands and thousands more Jesus is very much at work with their relationships in the same way he is at work in straight relationships. A simple example. This past week my lover needed doctoring. The conditions seemed very serious to him, but actual quite minor, but needed quick medical attention. A series of events led to him to get this medical attention. At every step an unusual amount of attention by receptionist, nurses, and doctors aided him through the process. If it were me I'd just go get it done and so be it. For him it was very scary. But the extra hugging and special attention was very touching and at every step God had prepared the red carpet treatment for my lover. It was very obvious that Jesus was helping. This process also has had a very deep spiritual effect on him too. He has had this wonderful opportunity to see life in a hole new way. At every turn in life in our relationship and where ever we go we get well received by sales people and any person we need to see in conducting routine business. Many things we must use terms in buying intimate things like bedroom furniture, cars, etc. and we are treated like a couple automatically by everyone we run into. We have never seen one turn up nose let alone out right homophobia. I see homophobia because I am on TV and so when I go to church pastors often treat me in unchristian like manner. It is really bad that you felt need to abandon a loved one for the sake of homophobia.
Though angry and frustrated over the break-up with Laura, I continued going to the ministry's meetings for the next 18 months. The insights I gained there were incredibly valuable. I learned how to look for patterns in my same-sex attractions, so I could understand the underlying needs which sparked the temptations in the first place.
^i^ " temptations "???? You mean if a straight man sees a straight woman and they both are single and attracted to each other it is called temptation? WHY? You say you learned? From who? From a homophobic pastor? You did not understand the underlying needs at all. You counselor told you that normal patterns were sin to gays. If a gay had patterns it is sin, but a straight with the same patterns it was simply dating. Why couldn't you say your counselor showed you verse so and so and such and such and here is the Hebrew and Greek with some history on them too. Then you would have learned something. But you did not tell us you studied the Bible to arrive at your conclusions. You played the psychology game. So who do you believe? Homophobic Christian psychologists or psychologists that know gay is not sin, but gays are people which can have problems that their profession can help. Well we know you sought the homophobic counselors without consideration of anyone else. A warped conclusion at best is all you can ever know.
I continued to grow in my relationship with God, and eventually I realized that something had changed deep inside of me. God changed my sexual identity from ex-gay to godly woman. I was learning that God loved me with a gentle delight, especially when I relied on his strength.
^i^ What a bigot you turned into. What is a "from ex-gay"? What is a godly woman? You testified you were bisexual. You were never an ex-gay at all. You did enjoy sex with the opposite sex: " dating three boys at one time ". You bisexual portray a false witness by calling yourselves ex-gay. Gay:
ho·mo·sex·u·al (ho´me-sèk¹sh¡-el, -mo-) adjective Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
Noun: A homosexual person; a gay man or a lesbian.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
bi·sex·u·al (bì-sèk¹sh¡-el) adjective
1. Of or relating to both sexes.
2. a. Having both male and female reproductive organs; hermaphroditic. b. Botany. Denoting a single flower that contains functional staminate and pistillate structures; perfect.
3. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of either sex.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
adj. Sexually oriented to members of both sexes.
^i^ You see there is quite a difference between gays and bisexuals. I would hope you would know this. But like so many ex-gay leaders they just assume there is no difference. A historical note of fact concerning when the Church started condemning gays:
Religion has been of central importance in shaping this climate. Until the thirteenth century, the Christian tradition was ambiguous in its attitude toward homosexuality. But with the recodification of canon law under the influence of Thomas Aquinas, new attitudes set in. Homosexual behavior was thereafter excoriated as a heinous sin. The English carried these beliefs to North America, and the power of religion in early America guaranteed that such beliefs would shape colonial attitudes.
^i^ You see if you studied you could have been set free. Why didn't the Church condemn gays since Jesus? Why did Thomas Aquinas make the whole Church condemn gays from his day on?
During this time, I found myself having a new interest in men, and began spending time with them in group situations. Then, in mid-1991, I began dating John, a man in my church who like me had come out of homosexuality. On December 31, 1991, he presented me with a ring and asked me to marry him. We were married the following July. I kept looking happily at the ring, thinking, "Wow! Me married!" I was filled with joy as God established something so beautiful and holy in our lives.
^i^ Yeh butch dyke meets queens, how touching. Its too bad you guys went on to have a ministries of lies. A ministry that is against truth and justice. A ministry that supports the damming of 600 million gays. You may not say this with your mouth, but its solidly based in ex-gay doctrine. This so called marriage that in 1991 seems to bring joy, lets just wait and see. 1992 was just a little bit over 5.5 years ago. Anne you were bisexual, but John I am not sure about according to his testimony. Anne it was no big deal for you to have sex with men or women, mostly you like women and you still do today. I don't care what you may try to tell us in this testimony, women are far more interesting to you than men, but you can go either way. John seems all from a gay background and so is living in a strict denial, which just plain doesn't work. I expect to see John back in the gay community in the future or a very miserable man with you. The least you could do is figure out life in not what you are representing it to be concerning gays.
Since then, God has used John to comfort me and to confront areas of distrust in my life. This has been difficult, but the Lord has been faithful to fulfill his promise to heal, even when the process is uncomfortable. I am so glad that my Father took the time to unearth the hurts that held me back from growing into godly femininity. Now I don't need to compare myself to other women and don't seek to gain femininity from them through emotional dependency or homosexual relationships. My identity is secure as a woman because I know Christ.
^i^ " godly femininity " That is a joke! You really must think women are dumb don't you? What is it around 3 billion women in the world and you speak of western glamour culture as " godly femininity " The whole picture emerges through out your testimony that you have are great big problem with the fact that your are a woman. You have a inordinate obsession with femininity. Your femininity obsession needed a therapist. Can't you open your eyes. I have to make deliveries everyday downtown Seattle and vicinity. I see many women from every kind of job and every walk of life. Office full after office full. I have been around the world in many foreign countries and you talk about femininity? I have not missed a service in Assemblies of God churches for a period 13 plus years. I have spent regular attendance in many denominations including catholic as part of my job taking groups of 20 to church each Sunday school and church service for five years. I have two sisters, a few aunts, grandmas and greats. I have worked years with women. I have known many lesbians, from bull to fem. I have known TSs, TVs, & TGs. What is this " godly femininity "? What sin most women live in because they don't even come close to your " godly femininity ". You had some sort of fixation which imprinted a lie into conditioning. If you want to dress up like a Hollywood star ask John he can help you, but don't insult the rest of womankind with your fetishes. Nothing wrong with femininity, just your perception of it. There are lots of bull dyke straight women that are very content with it and not ashamed at all and they love God dearly. Another word for your femininity is your want to be pretty because you thought you were ugly and so femininity to you probably means beauty. Just remember one woman that went to a workshop of yours said:
"Paulk shows up for the class outfitted in a sweatshirt, sweat pants, sneakers, baseball cap, and knapsack -- looking like the cute, athletic butch dyke she should be"
^i^ Final note here. Maybe I missed something here. I don't remember any of these ex-gay leaders ever indicating a hint of studying God's word concerning gays. It a policy of ex-gay leaders to avoid comment on the Word of God? I never get the chance to comment on why they believe gay is sin, because in their whole life they never checked God's Word on the gay issues. They all just assumed the anti-gay 700 year old Church doctrine against gays as fact. Shall we also accept as fact these same 700 years ago people bled people that were sick thinking the blood was the evil and that sailing to far out to sea would cause you to fall off the edge of the world? That the Earth was the center of the Universe and it was heresy to think it merely circle the Sun and was just a planet? Why is it that concerning gays the Church continues the traditions of lies. For the sake of 600 million gays isn't it worth the Church to really look into this matter. But just go to the Christian colleges and see what is taught concerning gays. I have talked to many graduates and even some teachers. Nothing except the assumption that gay is sin is taught. Never are scholars invited in to teach the other side of the story. Now these ex-gay ministries should have a common concern coming from a life they believe to be sin. They should be very concerned about the 600 million gays worldwide. They should of all people have a special interest in learning the truth concerning gays. But they use solely as their source of information the homophobic Church. God did not make us stupid. We all have brains and can read. For a very long time the people were not allowed to read the bible and must listen and depend on priest to read and interrupt the Bible from Latin. Finally we all can read a myriad of versions. Have easy access to the Original Hebrew and Greek and the historical records. Gays are more open than ever and the gay community has organizations up the ying yang. So why can't ex-gay leaders read? Many do and guess what. Ask Bussee and Cooper. Many ex-gay leader don't but they still find gay is not sin because they remain gay not matter how long they fight it. The longer ex-gays and their leaders stay ex-gay the more of the lies they see saying gay is sin come to light. Ex-gay leaders have a serious problem that their clients don't have. Their clients can just quit and just about nobodies notices. But the leaders have a long standing recognition of church leaders to contend with. And as Bussee and Cooper could tell you these church leaders and even those other ex-gay leader don't exactly treat ex-ex-gays very well and they certainly don't accept them into their churches unless a strict set of rules are obeyed like admitting slipping and repenting of it publicly. Even if you slip like like birds of prey they swoop down on you and take everything your made for your self in the ministry you have headed or founded for years. Doug Houck is laid waste after over 8-9 year of the ministry he founded.
Gay is not sin and Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be straight.
The Stables Ministries Home of Gays For Jesus TV Programs
Voice: 206-338-4297(gays) text: 425-321-5987 correspondence: email@example.com