Gays For Jesus
Many just can't accept where gays fits into God's plan. Vcheetah says "I would like to say one thing, though, and it has to do with why I am curious about homosexuals and their place in Christianity."
Length: 28 min.
In a message dated 97-05-14 21:51:47 EDT, you write:
Subj: Re: part 2 reply to VCheetah@aol.com
Date: 97-05-14 21:51:47 EDT
From: V Cheetah
You have said many things in your reply that will keep me occupied for quite a while, so you'll have to bear with me while I do a little research for a response. I would, however, like to thank you very much for giving such complete answers to my questions; a lot of people say things and don't take the time to explain them, especially on TV.
^i^ A lot needs to be explained on this issue and I am glad to answers questions to a point within limits beyond my control. There are times I must move on.
I would like to say one thing, though, and it has to do with why I am curious about homosexuals and their place in Christianity.
^i^ Many just can't accept where gays fits into God's plan. Many other minorities feel they are a special group and anything gays may say that seems likewise is taken with a grain of salt as biased. However, The Bible does explain things in good details for those that have ears. The body has many members and you don't say you have no need of any member, and those parts considered most uncomely is bestowed much more comeliness. The Church has said to what it considers its most uncomely member I have no need of you and amputated the gay member off. This cause severe trauma in the Church. As our "uncomely member" of our physical bodies we hide in shame and head great guilt on each other over this part we fine it gives us the most physical pleasure we can share with the one we love. It insures loving making and procreation. It insures that relationships can even exist, though we try to cover it up so much and make it so nasty. With out it there would be no family. When its stops the family often suffers and even breaks up. We all don't have to talk about it much when read this in the Bible we just know what part it is talking about. Now, the Church spiritual body is reflected here as we know. Please tell me how you define the Church's uncomely member. Well, I am telling you it has been the many minorities in the Church and specifically meant in a fulfillment of Last Days Prophesy gays worldwide. How can the Church perform LOVE if they chopped off its love feelings? What is mental love? What is words that say I love you? If you told your wife/husband you loved them but never made love with them how long would it last? I am not talking about special circumstances. Even the Bible tells us that if you stop making love to fast and pray that you should not take to long at it and to hurry back to your spouse for sex or satan may tempt you.
1 Cor 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. (KJV)
1 Cor 7:5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. (NIV)
^i^ Well the Church did expel publicly its member that gives this emotional physical life to love. So today and for quite sometime, as we have many church leaders tell us, the Church is very very sick. We can't love between denominations and we can't love the lost that is very different from ourselves. We can't love Asians because we see they have never known Jesus therefore new converts must accept that they will never see lost loved ones in Heaven. And why at least 3 billion can't accept Christ as preached today. Its not because Jesus can't save them, but because Christians can't love with no bounds. The letter gets in the way. Mental love has no feelings. Where do gays fit in this Christian thing? As you get to know that the Church will not get Raptured Pre-Trib then you realize God has a bigger purpose than make his current people skate home free at the expense of who they have persecuted since Jesus rose. The Church has fail LOVE 101 and must take a course that will test their faith and they must pass the test. Today most that believe gay is sin laugh or mocks any possibility that gays could be anything other than sin. Yet, when this 1260 day period comes to break the power of the Church:
Dan 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." (NIV)
^I^ And just what will be completed?
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. (KJV)
Rev 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." (NIV)
^i^ What does this mean? It means the Church will see things happen that they thought that they would not see because they would have been Raptured. This will be quite shocking. It will test the Church's faith to the max. The Bible very often warns us to holdfast, standfast, to persevere to the end. We have to make it to the Rapture. This means we may not make it because we have to keep believing Jesus. No rules of sin, no moral issues, no doctrine, Not even any particular love, no nothing need be obeyed to insure your salvation. Don't get me wrong now, because you have faith and believe and have God's laws written on your heart, and the Bible those things are taken care of automatically because you love Jesus and try to do your best, when you fail, Jesus paid for it already and your account is already completely paid off. Its the believing that will get Christians in trouble in those days. They will stop believing because they were taught and when they studied it it fit what was taught because you were taught it already or was taught it later and so you said ah so and suddenly it is not that way at all. Jesus lied, he had to, for he said we'd be Raptured pre-Trib, or other Christians say he said and promised no pain just gain. Now there are current groups ( Masons) that are ready to tell them about the real Jesus which differs from the one of the Bible. When I say Masons I don't mean you will hear them outright and so clear after all their highest degrees have been secret for 5000 years. Christians will feel betrayed by the Jesus of the Bible. You may think this impossible. But remember its just not that the Trib has started and they are quote "left behind" its more than that.
Rev 11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. (NIV)
^i^ This is not simple h2o. For the past 2000 years we have always had the Holy Spirit watering us. The former and latter rains, I add and all the mist and drizzle in between. We have had our roots watered in dry and wet seasons by external forces ( The Holy Spirit) He was helping us sink our roots deep into Jesus, but most Christians just enjoyed this watering and played in it. Especially today. Its different today for the church that is alive. A day was reserved by God to "punish" the Church for their ancestors sins. God further says today's Church's sin is worst than its ancestor's sins. It does take much study to see how the church in spite of the great good it has done and the souls that have been saved that the great harm it has done to the innocent. Well justice is coming and the censor is thrown down opening the time that Jesus can answer the prayers of the innocent people persecuted by the Church. The Trib is not for unbelievers except to get them saved. The Trib is to break the power of the Church. These 2 will shut off this rain. There Church thereafter must depend on roots that they have sunk into Jesus. Now Shallow roots feels like deep roots in the rainy season. So many today say they have deep roots when they really have shallow roots. When the rain stops they will wither. This is why so many will fall away:
II Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (KJV)
^i^ Now the setting is in place. hundreds of millions of Christians in dire straights with the doctrines they've been taught. Note: How did these doctrines become so false at least enough that we didn't see this coming? Well, again , because of widespread general sin of the Church and the drawing near of this coming day the element of the New World Order well planned over thousands of years and fined tuned over the last few centuries, finally ready for implementation in the 1990s with no possible chance that anyone can stop it this time all bases covered. Even if everyone found out and took to arms its to late. Allowed the Masons through the name Illuminati and now Counsel on Foreign Relations, Tri-Latteral, Buildbergs and etc. to penetrate the Church with implants especially in the Sunday schools. This was high on their list as absolutely necessary to take over the world power namely the USA. This began in the early decades of the 1900s and has had all this time to seat itself. I just read an article that research the Southern Baptist Church and it found 400 -500 thousand members to be Masons. Many are 33rd degree which is the highest publicly know level. This level knows all the major plans, but takes orders from still higher levels. Jack Kemp is a known 33rd degree Mason. This is most likely typical numbers that can be found in the rest of the Church too. Their plan is to extremely subtly and ever so slightly modify doctrine of belief. To change enough through the decades to have a Church that will fall or accept their world leader (anti-christ). Well this is 1997 they have had at least 80 solid years of purposely infiltrating the Church. The Church is ready to be shocked into turning to anti-christ hook line and sinker. Many will begin to see it happening, but be so helpless calling on GOD through Jesus who appears not to hear them. Their roots are to shallow or they'd would have known this was to be and so they could continue to stand fast in Christ Jesus. Who will help? The 2 witnesses seem so evil in the sight of Church leaders and it higher archly. Another story in unfolding as well during these pass few decades. God has been preparing a people who have endured Church persecutions throughout the past 700 years. Other minorities have suffered for long periods under the Church, and many seem to think they may have a special calling, but the current facts plainly show most harbor increasing hate and seek revenge. (note: also a planned goal of the Masons.) God just isn't going to use people that were persecuted that when he showed them mercy they them began persecuting others with their new found freedoms. Gays are uniquely different almost across the board with few exceptions. Most have no idea that they are being prepared by God for a future ministry. But if you have listen to townmeetings where the issues concerned gays and those that oppose them (always the Church) It can bee seen from a great distance the love from the gay side and supporters and the entirely different mood of the anti-gays side which appears so judgmental. Gay organizations as a whole seek to heal. Doing great in dept research to bring fact to light on these issues concerning gays. Their attitude is that of helping others. Often their churches cross denominational lines. Assemblies of God gays worship next to Lutherans and etc. They do so with out stomping one another. In the straight churches many say with their mouth they love the Baptists brothers and sisters but with their gossip and action they point out their wrong doctrines and rarely get close to them unless it is in very general projects or coming together is a Billy Graham rally where you don't know anyone next to you and really never will. What I am saying is God's plan is to in that day have his gay children ready to minister to straight Christians round the world with loving open arms totaling forgiving the church for its persecutions. The Church will not comprehend this kind of love as they will recognized they have believed all their lives gay was sin and often spoke it if ask about it. And now here in front of them gay Christians supporting them in Christ Jesus to keep their faith that Jesus has not forsook as it has seemed. The time this happen will be very striking. There is so much more to gays than you may ever know concerning them and God. But the Church just does not want to know.
Right now my policy is to love every human being, and guide those who I can to do what is right. I just happen to know some friends that are gay. If I can't do that, though, it's not my wish to be offensive or oppressing.
^i^ This is a good place to be, though policy to love others may produce a horrible outcome of hate. If you can understand your love to be expressed will not bring hopelessness then love with this love you have. Hopelessness is telling a gay person it is sin. Why? Because it says you have to change and be straight or the least to never have sex again which means never love anyone they way their straight brothers and sister can freely love. A life sentence at best. Some do try the straight things, but if you only knew what you did by cause a gay person to go against his nature. Bisexuals often can get by leading their appearance of straight behavior as their life. But true gays which is most of the 10% must never have sex again let alone love some intimately for if they do they will go to hell. For most gays this means the fact is they are gay and that is not going to ever change so if some says gay is sin and its true thin their is just no hope that anything about God and Jesus Christ will get them saved. Many in the Church says Jesus delivers. So stupid this statement is with nothing to back it up. Lots of ex-gay ministries around to prove it. They just don't work and they just never use the Bible in practice, but secular behavior modification techniques. Decades of follow up prove they don't work. the Church doesn't care about follow-up long term. So if you love them there is much to consider. You have to understand it.
Religiously I am not homophobic, I just believe it is sin. Of course, like abortion it is a topic of debate, but please don't think I am that way.
^i^ I am just sorry, but anyone that believe the lie that gay is sin just plain homophobic, period. Wishing the term away with good thought does not make it go away. Again sorry abortions and gays are not comparable controversies except in that if you say or believe gay is sin you are guilty of murdering them because that means you believe them to hell an eternal death.
As an American, if nothing else, I believe in equal rights and freedom of choice in one's personal lifestyle. I figure if gay is sin, God will protect me from it's influence. If not, then equally so I shouldn't worry about it.
^i^ Not bad. I wish the American part could be true, but I am afraid the Masons are right the USA is going to be the re-birth place of what they often refer to as New Atlantis (Bible term: Days of Noah). But, a live and let live is good concerning if its bad then it will not stand (though gays have been 10% since the beginning), BUT YOUR better part is, if its ok then you should worry about it. That's sort of Biblical as the Sanhedren discussed a group that seemed against them in teaching one said if it is of God we would them be fighting God. If gays are of God then those that speak against them speak against God what then shall God do in the day of reckoning?
I don't want to take up much more of your time, but let me add just one more question to my previous Email. Just in my own personal experience, I find heterosexual sex to be appealing and equally so homosexual sex revolting as a practice. I was wondering if gay people felt the opposite way, or if people that are gay (like you for instance, if it's not too personal) feel that heterosexual sex is nothing more than an "alternative"; not repulsing, but just different and not really preferable?
^i^ That's all right, one answer to prayer that I had given God a long list to answer during a vacation at a lake, brought a man, who by the way mysterious came to camp next to me and right away invited me to talk with him. We talked about my TV program and he watched it and explained himself as doing many remarkable things which he produced proof explaining credibility. During this he brought, unknown to him, to me every answer I ask God for. He asked me likewise to help him comprehend gay love. He said he tried by pretending kissing another man and it just seemed to disgusting to continue. I simply told him he was going at it wrong. He is not gay and never could emphasis with gays by doing something against his nature. I told to understand gay love would be to thing about every feeling he had during dating and marriage. Every kind of sexual joy, every kind of experience marriage gives living together. He immediately understand and told me he now completely understand gay love. You see it is no different with gays. Many gays marry for many reasons. There are many bisexuals who enjoy it both ways. Much of the Church relies on bisexual testimony of being changed to straight when in reality they aren't doing anything special at all and in fact should the seemingly straight marriage fail as up to 62% do end in divorce, these would very possibly find a same sex relation as nothing has changed except they are no longer married. I don't get much into bisexuals being right or wrong, they can look out for themselves and if they are convince of God that it is not sin then they can stand up presenting that fact. However this issue I deal with concerning the Church is very cut and dry, a baby could see it concerning true gays are not sin. Gays sin well enough and Jesus paid the price just as he did for straight, but being gay or behaving gay, just like being straight and behaving straight is not a sin issue. Abusing you lover or spouse is, just like raping and all those kinds of sins. Adultery the same. Multi-sexual partners on the other hand has been forced on gays by the Church and so more consequences of this sin is laid to the Church than to gays. Sometimes it is pretty repulsive to see straights affection so publicly or in bars. it almost seems like incest at times speaking for myself. Some women are nice looking, but so are flowers. It seems disgusting to me to see men that is not my type being affectionate. But if they are my type it really neat. Its what I call the "liver" thing. This is real good for you and many seem to love eating it, but it makes me throw up. I don't hate it, its just not for me. I can it and live and not die. Gays often marry opposite sex for many reasons. After all it works and they are many benefits given by society if you are married. In the past having children meant old age security. Even today to some degree. Most true gays just do not like straight sex period. Sometimes I think about it and it makes me sick. The parts are disgusting. I am very uncomfortable if any try to make a pass at me or get to close. On the other hand I have to apply all the rule to manage temptation that My studies show pastors are doing when they counsel other the opposite sex. Its not a big problem, but I have a strong commitment to my relationship to be faithful period. This term alternate life style is the most stupid term to apply to gays. It assumes a choice. If one can so easily choose then he is close to Rom. 26-26 of going against your nature. I can not find scientific evidence nor psychiatric evidence, nor personally meeting with other gays, nor myself to show that being a true gay person, nearly a full 10%, is a learned or is a choice. But gays are born that way. The Bible give positive evidence that it is nature for some to be gay. The RIB taken from Adam best meaning with the most intensive research is actually a CELL from the RIB. This cell of course today we know has the blueprint of life in it. All inherited traits are there including the mechanism to produce 10% gays through out history. If you were gay and had gotten through coming out as it were to yourself and can see the homophobic condemnation (Church generated) then gays wouldn't want to be straight at all. Tell me would you want to be gay? What would it take to force you to be gays? How can you develop the same feelings you now have being straight to gay feelings. Again, its simple just see yourself and how much you are satisfied being straight. Then you have your answer concerning gays. They are not missing anything as my brother said once. He at first felt sorry for me, then figured it out right away that I am not missing anything at all. You can't bring babies into it as I have discussed with you earlier. I know for a fact that you may really want and or have children, but that is not why you are married. You wanted love from another person for life. May have had problems meeting someone, may have divorce even more than once, and may have found someone you can life the rest of your life with, same as gays. We are not talking about those that play around or else straight is sin period. The kings and queens of sexual immorality. Some gays who have been so abused by society and taught being gay so wrong and really hates what they are because that all they know may wish to be straight. Many gays go through a mini trip on why couldn't they have been straight which is directly related to how close they were to anti-gay teachings and pressures to marry and so forth. But for you to have the thought that a gay person would prefer to be straight show how badly the Church is ministering to it peoples needs. Answer the question yourself with would you prefer to be gay? I would have a tendency to thing straight don't know what they are missing. The most incredibly beautiful people in the world are men. ( at least my type). One straight man friend of mine often told me it does not matter what a woman looks like just so long as he could have sex with her. If its too bad he just put a sack over her face. Well being in the Air Force a while back and found this wasn't far from many starlight's philosophy, even though most were joking. Some gays often joke around too. Prefer is a misnomer because you don't have a choice nor I, but the beauty of God's plan is the we are satisfied as we are and have no desire to change. The desires to change you may hear about are laced with misleading facts and no follow up. We of course do have the desire to change from sinning. I am totally a different person than I was before I was saved. Yet, then I was otherwise pretty normal guy with no unusual sins as it were, mainly not having God and going my own ways. God did get a hold of me and never let go to this day.
Thanks again, and you'll be hearing from me later. I'll try to catch your next show.
^i^ Sorry TCI didn't have a program from me last Monday, but tonight they do. The holiday they are shut down so my programs will resume the following week....
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