Gays For Jesus
This Church anti-gay doctrine created the "outside of marriage" accusation is really an expression of one's ignorance of the facts. Homophobic Christians don't allow marriage . . .
Comments in reply to Vcheetah (1st e-mail)
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:23:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Gays For Jesus
^i^ This angel shows my comment to the senders comments.... My replies will reflect the general Church attitude on sender's comments as my personal experience with hundreds of thousands of Christians on this subject matter shows a commonality.
Thanks, I was just checking to see if I got the right address. Just a viewer comment here, maybe you might want to look into writing that message board behind you on the show a little BIGGER.
^i^ Thanks, for bringing this to my attention.
Anyway, I have just a couple preliminary questions for you. One is, which main Christian denomination do you best relate to, I'm just curious for a frame of reference for debate.
^i^ 23 years with the Assemblies of God. Additional 5 years added into that 23 years job related as a care giver taking groups to many other denominations every Sunday, including the Sunday school before the service.
Second, I notice that you are a very well versed man in the Scriptures, but do you have any background in theology especially the works of Augustine or Thomas Aquinas?
^i^ I read a lot and for many years never missed a service or guest speaker's workshops. I was glued to Christian TV for 10 plus years. Read the Bible many times, other than that I have no formal education.
Just a little background on myself, I am a viewer from the Seattle area that is not gay, and in fact although I am mainly non-denominational, I tend to follow the Roman Catholic view on homosexuality. Basically, that the gay man is to be loved and respected in Christian fellowship, but (sorry) I believe that the homosexual act is wrong. My reasoning behind this ties into by studies of theology and general naturalism.
^i^ I have been fed much from non-denominational churches, even the Catholic church, I prefer Pentecostal church off shoots. In more recent times I attend church very little because since I began preaching on TV it seems like it doesn't take long for the welcome mat is removed. Now, as for the Catholic Church concerning gays, Saint James here in Seattle opened it sanctuary for the Dignity convention held some years ago. Saint Joseph, I believe, allowed Dignity Seattle to meet their using the main sanctuary for many years. Actually, the Catholic Church just recently (Vatican) imposed stricter rules concerning Catholic gays. This meant as a doctrine gays must be condemned. Lots of things adjusted around for this stricter doctrine, but Dignity is alive and very healthy and has quite a web site as all the other denominational gays. My web site has links to many of these. To say its wrong as a doctrine does not make it wrong by BIBLE. I have studies this for 23 plus years. I did not just look into the matter biased because I am gay, I also studied and read much material from the Church which condemns gays. The actual anti-gay doctrine is soon to be 700 years old. This should be important to know, if its 700 years old what of the other 1300 years from the Cross? Generally theology has had great problems. A 95 point thesis was hung on the door of the Church couple hundred years ago. It was considered heresy by most the Church leaders of the day. Today the opposite is true this same 95 point thesis is accepted as correct and the past Church was wrong. Theology changes the Bible never changes, though many translations, there is always ways to study its meaning in originals. Now naturalism, is quite interesting. In fact the meaning of this term meant quite a different thing in Paul's day compared to today. This most importantly is significant to Rom 1:26-27. Here, had you understanding, which later in this email you indicate a great deal of ignorance, you would see this very verse tells you it is not talking about gays at all as the context completely assures a non-gay meaning to the whole context of 18-32.
You seem to be open to fair debate, so let me start out with why the gay act is a sin. In the seventh book of Augustine's Confessions, he states that sin is defined as a "perversity of God's will". One of his basic ideas behind this is that God's will is synchronous with the "will" of nature. Now, you can use science or even common reason, but either way there is no evidence that suggests a natural inclination towards homosexual acts. Now I know some animals do it, but none that relate to homosapiens. Therefore, homosexuality is an aberration of nature, or a perversity.
^i^ I am open to fair debate, however tell me the last time any in the Church held a fair debate on this matter? As I said earlier you had a great deal of ignorance in this area of natural things. Concerning Augustine's Confessions you have told me he states that sin is defined as a "perversity of God's will". But you did not show me he states gay is sin. Too many make gays another word for sin. Your quote "Now, you can use science or even common reason, but either way there is no evidence that suggests a natural inclination towards homosexual acts." It is amazing you can think this way. Human beings have been 10% gay ever since. Try doing a real study on gays in history, John Boswell uses many writings from gay Catholic priests from the time period just before the crack down on gays as the Church standardized with the State at the end of the 12th century. There are 3 libraries in the USA that have at least a million and up to 3 million books on gays. The Catholic Church and the Protestant churches also have chambers full of positive gay material banned by the Church. The historical record has many records of gays throughout history. Today there are 700 million gays. Tell me how many of them did you interview? How many steps did you take in my shoes to figure out being gay isn't natural? Science? There are a great deal of scientific facts for you concerning this and Psychiatric association has reported there finding that show gay is quite normal. The most significant thing is that you can never know can you how it is to be gay and how you got that way, huh? I am 50 years old. I have not forgotten my youth and childhood. I have been to cities that literally became populated with gays for several days. I have been to a number of gay church conventions including a Catholic one. I have met thousands of gays and attended MCC Church for several years and several others off and on. I have spent years at dance bars and am familiar with hundreds of small topic related groups such as camping, ice skating, country, boating, arts, and every kind of walk of life. I have spent time in what generally in uncomfortable for me places that cater to leather, transvestites, and others. I am not 50 by accident for I also spent a great deal of time with straights in all similar types of "topics". I have seen sexual immorality straight and gay. Sexual abusers as well. 3% are gay 97% are straight. How do I know. Most is from personally spending lots of time. God has shown me our sexuality, straight and gay. Anyone that professes to know what immorality is and preaches on it had better have gone to the Holy Spirit school and not rely on man's educational institutes or a life of so called perfect example of what right. Literally hundreds of 1000s conversations with Christian that think gay is sin I have found that it is not the sin they wish for but a inter hatred which often leads to overt word depicting lewd sexual acts to emphasis their stand that gay is sin. If gay was not natural then tell me how do gays come about to exist? Old school says mommy did it. Many still believe it. There is just to many facts around. There are 6 billion on Earth now and so again it is easy to test theories. Why is Bill gay and not Joe? For every case there are cases to the contrary. Each gay person find out he is gay because of Paul's Rom 26-27's Greek.
5446 phusikos (foo-see-kos'); from 5449; "physical", i.e. (by implication) instinctive: KJV-- natural. Compare 5591.
5449 phusis (foo'-sis); from 5453; growth (by germination or expansion), i.e. (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension, a genus or sort; figuratively, native disposition, constitution or usuage: KJV-- ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
^i^ Above when put into the sentence and context describes adults not babies or children. These adults became gay as you believe after becoming adults. In 18 you begin to find people who grew up turned from God made other gods to worship were then changed into "gay" as you want it to mean. It also tells you after 27 that anyone can look at gays, as your dream persists, as see a evil non-sexual behavior. God is so good, He shows you by describing behavioral details who He is talking about. 600 million gays, simple go check it out. Gays happen to be a benefit to society at every angle. There the care givers, the best employees, leaders, they love God, and parents. The list of good behaviors is long. You'd be hard pressed to find many that behave so wickedly as described in 28-32. Show me the gays that before they were gay carved wooden and stone gods of the context of verse 18-25. You can't unless you sway so far from truth that it your hatred not love being seen. According to 26-27 the Greek means simply put that as you want it to mean sex then it is straight adults that have had and thoroughly enjoyed straight sex as a straight person, then suddenly changed to conduct gay sex. In case you didn't know it most gays grew up gay and as time went on can see recognize their childhood's gayness. Some knew and acted on it earlier some even very late in life finally accepted the truth about themselves, unfortunately at the expense of a family created out of running from truth. Gay should be straight by conditioning alone, but against all odds they are gay. The best way I can explain what it feels like is look at your straightness. I bet you love straight sex and straight love and as a Christian you direct all this to the best you can with tons of mistakes to what you think the Bible teaches. And how Jesus and you walk with him leads. Well after you review every thing you find that defines straights then you will have what info you need to understand what gays are as well. If you would like to get into babies, then we can. No babies is a straight thing you know. The pill which most Christian take, historically the Church has been horrible with Children. It sickens ones heart to think Christian could treat kid's so bad as the Church did. Is today better? Why with so many promises from Jesus and the Bible do we still have such horrible problems with kids today? God's plan? Well there is 6 billion now, I guess it worked. Are Christians interested in finding out about truth? With info concerning killing a billion people drawn up by the real leaders of the world the Church sits back, its just interesting figuring where that fits into prophesy. Gays are gay because the above Greek words say a orange seed will grow into an orange tree not an apple tree. And that no matter how much conditioning to the contrary it will still turn out to be an orange tree. Gays are gay from birth, try as the Church will to change that they turn out gay. Why? Their gut instincts tell them that. You know and it find tunes till you accept it, if you don't you fight an endless battle. I will not go into details about ex-gays. I have decades worth of study and much personal experience with ex-gay ministry leaders. It for here will be suffice to say. Gays are not changing because there is nothing to change from and Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be straight. Now on the other hand straights are indeed changing and tons of follow up is available. Check out http://www.otago.ac.nz/qrd/orgs/PFLAG/ Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays web site. It is well established and long term deliverance's from homophobia and false belief that gay is sin with all the true Biblical sign of deliverance, while ex-gay group must submit to a often painful life of following behavioral modification techniques paying therapist rates most of the sessions. For you to say it is an aberration of nature, or a perversity is to show you know very little of the facts.
Not that that is sinful, because who can help how they feel. In fact, the love aspect is probably a good thing. But the lust is perversion because it is unnatural. That's why Catholics treat homosexuality a lot like alcoholism.....love the sinner, hate the sin.
^i^ Funny statement "who can help how they feel" Are you now admitting gays are born that way? I already went into the major divisions in the Catholic church over gays. Only one reason it is doctrine and that is because of the ruler. What do you know about the Pope? Most Catholics believe the last Pope will be the 2nd beast. However, the Vatican wants him to be the 1st beast it looks like the world leaders want Lord Maitreya to be world leader. As another example 400-500 Southern Baptist are Masons. How many other Christians are Masons and what positions do they hold? The Illuminati (part of Masons) set up a plan to rule the world, actually they took this goal one giant step forward as Masons have been planning this nearly since the Flood, part of this plan was to begin in the early 1900s to infiltrate churches, especially Sunday schools. We have had probably 70-80 years of this. They don't care to have instant results, but want to gradually inch by inch change ever so slight what the Church believes. These same people took over the banks and media and now are called the Counsel on Foreign Relations. To get an idea the details on what has happen to America and the world by Masons read William T. Still book "New World Order" Don't depend to strongly on those that seem to be our spiritual leaders. Many have gotten Christian to believe unbiblical things, like the Rapture happens before the Trib when scripture says it happens at the 7th trumpet and that the Church will be shaken, few believe how severely, Lev. ch.26 gives you an idea, were at the 4th lesson of that chapter and still have not obeyed God. We can stand the coming days, but we must know what is happening to us. Christians will see this happen and think Jesus has lied to them and turn their backs on him. Easy way to understand is shallow roots verses deep roots. Deep roots are taped into Jesus and can survive the coming drought of NO RAIN. Shallow roots will wither and die. How soon will that happen. The rain will be shut off instantly and if you have not figured out this was going to happen you will be trust into believing something is very wrong with the Bible and what your were taught. Jesus won't carry you across a dessert like to story goes "where were you? and Jesus said those single set of footprints are mine when I carried you" You will in the soon coming days need to have your roots deep into Jesus taped into the LIVING WATER. Both kinds of roots feel the same, so you can't depend on how close you feel you are with Jesus or standing on faith that your roots are deep. That day only will determine your roots. Had you know about the Masons who believe there are 2 gods, one the God of the Bible and the other Lucifer. They think GOD is a dark evil god and that Lucifer is the right god and good god. They have nearly took the world a few times, sometime a Pope stopped them while other Popes returned them to acceptance within the church. George Washington almost stopped them, Lincoln the same. And yet today we think of them as a good community support group. The 1st 3 levels seem very Christian. There are 33 known degrees and 2 branches (satanism & Luciferism). What have they done? They paid for both sides of most wars. Russia is actually a friend an ally in the coming one world gov't and through wars people demand peace and don't care how too much is their idea. Their arch enemies are Toro Jews, Christians, and atheists. They are going to kill them. This is very brief comments on thew coming days and you feel comfortable claiming gay is unnatural? The Bible tells us just about everywhere ( one search of the New Testament came up with 50 places) to persevere, standfast, holdfast, and many other statements that a Christian needs to keep his faith. Believing Jesus and his work. Love him, praise him, never doubt, fall and get back up quickly. WATCH! WATCH! WATCH! WATCH! Gedion's army was picked from those that drank by raising the water cupped in their hands to their mouth while watching for the enemy. The other lapped the water like a dog. 300 picked to fight, 10s of 1000s sent home. You got to teach your kids. How horrible that day come and they know nothing, they'll be taken away so fast, many becoming your executioners. You'll call on God to no avail because your roots are to shallow and no water to quench your thirst for him. Soon you will think Jesus forsake you and lied for you were taught to believe this kind of time would never touch Christians. You thought you read it in the Bible so you believed it. Now its not happening and many die around you 3 billion will die before the Rapture. How can you trust Jesus anymore? So you see this man on TV with power to beam place to place and even seem to heal millions all at once. The computer internet seems so alive connecting you to this man who is persuasive. Jesus never forsook you he told you this would happen, he said wait the 1335 days I'll be there for you, but you must get there or die trying. He warned you don't turn your back on him. The testing will come as he said and you need to know it then what ever happens you won't turn your back on him.
Just a secondary point, but isn't all sex outside marriage sinful? What's your position on that? And remember, marriage is to be both unitive AND procreative....
^i^ This Church anti-gay doctrine created the "outside of marriage" accusation is really an expression of one's ignorance of the facts. Homophobic Christians don't allow marriage by gays as a Church certified union. This 700 year old doctrine has become state law as well. B4 the end of the 12th century there was just about no Church condemnation of gays. In fact when there were those groups were often condemned by the Church. But 700 years ago the Church standardized with the State making State and Church laws the same. This also included gays is sin doctrine created by a few powerful Church leaders (Catholics). This was often used in power struggles by accusing one and another of being gay and so stripping them of leadership so the other rises to power. Its quite an interesting history if you would take time to learn why you believe gay is sin today. Gays were also cast into a category of the 3 top groups to be hated by the Church. They were Jews, barbarians, and gays. Funny the barbarians of the day believed gays to be a Christian thing. Because of this standardization that took place many left the Church and became Protestants. Gays often went to worship with them because they did not condemn them. Later, the Protestants adopted the Catholic anti-gay doctrine word for word. Gays were forced over time to live dual lives. The sexual aspects of it which you are trying to use as another proof gay is sin, was forced on them by their Christian brothers and sisters hating them because of the anti-gay doctrine well conditioned in to the world. By the 14th century most nations had laws against gays, prior to the 12th century you could not find laws against gays. Another important note of history, most of it there were no marriages licensed by State and certified by clergy. It was assumed if you lived together in a relationship you were automatically accepted as married. Just because you don't sanction gays marrying does not make them unmarried in God's eyes. You can't understand this because you look on with a conditioned anti-gay doctrine as your belief about gays. It matters not to you the real facts. I can show you verse after verse with detailed history and show you the real behaviors of gays worldwide and you'd still be blind to what I am saying because you so believe a non-Bible doctrine about gays. For instance:
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (KJV)
^i^ Here I show you a few verses that in detail describe behaviors that are not sexual at all and are very visible to on lookers. If Rom here were talking about gays Paul tells us that God gave them over to a reprobate mind and they would behave as 28-32 says. This should make it very easy to test your victims for behaviors. I call them your victims because you make so much out of false accusations to these innocent as charge people. Today there are 600 million gays so you have no excuse at all to compare verses 28-32 with gays. The real life facts and it has been so for all history concerning gays is that they do not behave as these verses say they must if they are the people of the context of 18-32. Please read these verses. I have seen thousands of gays myself and have spoken at length with them, I know through friends and other sources of millions. I have links to who know how many others, many are Christian gays. We have recently a continuous stream of gays coming out on TV and the military and so many places with tons of positive good reports on their behaviors. If we take in the BARS, I have spent years going to them in my life. I have observed the so called worst of sexual immorally of gays. When I compare to my personal experience with straights, 4 years in the Air Force, and a life time working with them, a number of years I even spent in close observance of sexual deviancy programs finding straights commit 97% and gay 3% of these crimes. It should be 90%/10% margin here. I have personally been involved in periods of time with a variety of Christian gay churches and organizations in some ground work laison meeting between the groups. Once here in Seattle a Christian groups against gays tried to get a law against gays on the ballot. They hid a flap that made all other minority in the same group to be discriminated against and also tried to have gays compared to sex with animals. When everyone found out it got thrown out as very deceptive in gaining signatures. Had this passed it would have made it illegal for gays to work and any straight who knew of a gay working would be guilty to. A lot went into to studying the far reaching consequences if this bill passed. They found if all gays would stop working the health care system would fail due to a dramatic loss of workers in this field that were gay. Gays were shown to basically be taking care of you. This is suppose to be verse 28-32 behavior. I have personally been told by many employers and heard this story told many times everywhere that gays are usually the best and most productive workers. How can you a Christian even in any way or sense use Rom ch 1 to condemn gays, just based on the last few verses alone. Now 18-25 are just as revealing as it describe exacting behaving ( non-sexual) of ADULTS before they were gay as making gods with their hands to worship them. The same rule applies. 600 million gays to investigate their behavior. Did they make it all they way to adulthood being straight? Paul here says GOD gave them over ( the Church assume that means God made them gay they were so evil before). Well these 600 million gays have a before adult life and a contender thereafter life. Some gays turn from God because the Church is so terrible in treatment to them, they can't accept such a hateful God. If gays turn away for this reason whose fault is it? However, most gays don't turn away from God at all, many make adjustments based on Church condemnation and many believe it sin just like you because e that's all they have been taught by people of GOD. Many are not believers for as many reasons ad straights aren't believers. Many as far as they can remembered always loved God, others accept Christ as life goes on as any straight would accept Jesus. Some "back slide" But never ever is there a condition that you can find that they were straight until adulthood when they then made gods to worship so GOD made them gay. The very verses themselves also tells you that it is not talking about gays. In 26-27 the key words are natural and nature. Had you any sense about yourself in your proclaimed love of Christ and your sincere detail to bring the lost to him you would have looked at these verse with a deep concern for truth and pursue that truth. You'd begin to grasp what is happening. Get out of you straight bigot shoes and step into a gays shoes. The easiest way for you to do that is reverse the idea and make the straights are the condemned ones, then you can understand your feeling and who you are and use that to understand what you are saying when you interpret this as condemning gays. To make it simple nature and natural mean "seed" and "instincts" You are ready know absolutely these are adults and they were straight because they did not become gay until verse 24. If you took time to understand the usage of these word based on the prior context you could see that these that were straight actually had and enjoyed straight sex loving it very much. What is implied in the presentation of the context is a clear past that was 100% in activities and mental process. Suddenly at one moment of time in their adult life GOD changed them to gay and or they joined in orgies as it were ( provable by where Paul was and the temple down the way from his speaking point there probably at the statue of the unknown god, and in that temple to a fertility goddess or god orgies were indeed taking place and Paul knew it according to history). Some Christians have told me that if you love someone and your straight and this love when expressed sexually gets very intense that this is called love, but if gays in a very similar circumstance in love does the same then it is lust and can't be love. With an attitude like that you can believe what you will to destroy the innocent. People that make instant judgement on gays without spending one day with that gay couple you tell me is this how Jesus wants Christians to behave? Hate and kill 1st then ask questions to the dead they've just killed. Now concerning procreative. You are again in denial and in full assumption of facts. As for Marriage what did the apostles says? It was impossible basically to obey marriage rule of GOD period. So better not to marry.
Matt 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. (KJV)
^i^ so after reading the above in context one would have to believe its better not to marry. Well nobody stops marrying do they. Can we preach against marriage though???? It is factual text of the Bible. Some Christian try to tell me Christians are having babies, but gays don't. The facts are most Christian in the US take birth control in some form. It used to be very common to have many children, now what is it 2? WHY? Christians purposely intervene in God's plan to multiply. There are tons of facts concerning anti-births by Christians. History is horrible concerning treatment of children by the Church too. Have you read this. Or do you assume the Church is wonderful in this department. John Boswell actually took time to study this in the Church history. Now if you study gays in history you'll find they procreated a lot in history. You see living dual lives usually means you do marry and have children. As we go further into the past gays often had children as one author joking put it for their social security plan. Today many gays have children. My ex-lover who I was with for 10 years had 3 children. What does God say about the barren?
Isa 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. (KJV)
^i^ You can't even begin to appreciate this verse though you may mock it if applied to gays, but what you miss is the personal relationship gays have with Jesus. You can't mock it away no matter what you say or what verse you use to accuse with. The homophobic Christian forgets what they preach to others, they forget Jesus is the person GOD. Every one that believes in him he come in to sup with. Don't you know what that means????? Jesus is real and he does what he says. For all our discussion here the most significant thing to consider is the personal testimonies of gay Christians and yet the Church all to often ignores this entirely.
Jer 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (KJV)
^i^ From many gay Christian circles the above verse rings out with joy to gays. In 1968 this began for gays to be fulfilled. Today every denomination is represented ministering to gays everywhere. They indeed do marry gays too. Many straight pastors also marry gays behind closed doors even in the most homophobic of denominations. God always honor marriage in the heart of gays couples everywhere.
sincerely, Victor from West Seattle.
PS, you talk a lot about Christians claiming that homosexuality has to do with demons. That's kind of weird, and I don't really know what that is all about. You might want to just ignore that kind of stuff and stick to orthodoxology. If I were you, I just wouldn't give any credence to that kind of paganism.
^i^ Sorry for your lack of knowledge concerning how much of the Church persists in believing demon possession is involved. My background of 23 years in the Assemblies of Gods churches very strongly believes demons are involved and trying to cast them out often when they get the chance often doing great harm to the innocent victims. This perhaps is the easiest test if they fairly meet at their alter with a gay Christian that knows the Bible and they in fairness let that person also deal with satan as needed in their presence instead of swamping the gay person allowing no chance to speak up after wards and minister as he sees fit to that circumstance. If you don't consider demons an issue or take them lightly you can be severely blinded and they will lead you where they wish. On the other hand demons job is specific and with goals and most things are not very related to the things as presented by the Church. They are busy preparing the one world gov't and got lots of people involved and the Church hasn't a clue. Demons love paganism all right, but are very real beings and part of their main goal is to deceive the Church in many matters most of which relates to Church doctrines. I will be trilled to confront a congregation concerning their "gays are demon possessed" belief at their alter, as usually they love to preach it from a safe distance so they don't have to actually operate in faith.
Also, you seem like a real literalist. I know that Biblical words can be defined in multiple ways, but should that be the focus of your show?
^i^ I actually do believe every word of the Bible literally, but that don't not mean I trust my renderings or anyone's renderings of its interpretations. However, it is so fantastic as it can be studied from so many angles and as much as God reveals to you you can move on towards the likeness of Jesus. Nobody can say with certainty their current understanding won't change as years go on. The Church was terribly wrong on many things that they are pretty right on today, but today they are very wrong on many things. A ticket to Heaven is not how right you are, else no one would go to Heaven, but that you believe with all you heart that Jesus is the Christ Son of God, raised on the 3rd day. Also, that you maintain this faith till the Rapture. I am convinced that the Bible urges us so strong to keep the faith, persevere, holdfast, and standfast that there must be a reason for it. Too many Christian states with finality that they will get to Heaven in the Rapture period. This would mean they are not believing God's Word that you must continue to persevere. Why should such strong emphasis be made if its a done deal? I use the literacy of the Bible to reach those that love to stand on the Word as those they have read it so that's good enough for them no matter who dies. This literacy also presents to any viewer a point of reference to begin genuine Bible studying on the issue I speak on. Those that can't stand it still are getting a message that later will come back to them. I am not so much interested in what results I see today. Today the Church is as blind about gays as Israel is blind concerning Jesus. Israel in a moment will see whom they pierce and so will the Church concerning gays. I am far from perfect and I do listen to you so please don't as I said a the beginning take personally in the way I direct my words. I must say what I must its a flood within me. It concerns the whole Church its in front of my eyes I must try the best I can to explain it to all that listen. I do better with time, I doubt I'll ever get it right, but those that think you must get it right are already unable to receive revelation from God.
You need to convince the contextualists, who don't go by the letter of the law as much as by it's content. Keep it up!
^i^ Thanks, but actually I need to convince on one. It is the Holy Spirit the quickens our spirits to hear God. There is a planting season and a watering season, then there is a reaping season. My message is not a reaping message, but a planting and watering. Reaping won't be so nice in many ways to the Church. It will hurts because the cycle swings low to cut off the stocks for the harvest. Man won't want to listen to God then, God's messenger in that (soon) day will have the power and authority to do astounding miracles. Many will die because they don't listen then, today it is a pre warning, then no more warnings. God will sanctify Himself in His messengers of that days and their very words will bring plagues. The Church will see those that they have persecuted falsely actually will see Jesus standing up in their mist stating why are you persecuting me. over 3 billion in the world can not accept Jesus the way the Church preaches him, they are the innocent that should have heard Jesus, but the Church deviled the saving Gospel so when they hear it they see an unloving Jesus an unloving God and a Church full of hypocrisy. The Church is almost 2000 years old and God has reserved a day for all the past to innocent peoples to receive justice. This will occur b4 the Church can be Raptured. Jesus is merciful to the LETTER that is a real part of the Bible that can't be wash away, he is also merciful to its context as it can be applied just as deadly to the saints and the lost. Yes, I will keep it up as long as time allows, but the clock is ticking soon and very soon we won't recognized the world as we know it today.
And although I don't agree with you, you make an interesting argument. :)
^i^ Like I said most of the Church can't hear and are blind just like they always have been. Every time in history the God was about to move he sent people to warn of coming events which did come, but most didn't accept the messengers. At the risk of offending you and other and if it makes me your enemy or fills you with disgust I will still reach out to your soul so that in that day you can not be disappointed in Jesus or think he lied to you and that you can stand fast even though 3.5 billion are dying around you. It is interesting because it touches something deep inside you. Perhaps a hope that God has given you that He is about to return. This is wedding time for the saints of God but 1st a wedding gown must be found that fits you exactly. No person know your size not even yourself. You can't shop for it at all. Though many are trying on different gowns there is only one that fits and God is the seamstress. And He is dressing you. So when this time comes remember all that you suffer can't compare with what good things are coming for you. Remember justice is a far greater importance to God than you temporary pain and that Jesus has waited a long time to see the censor thrown down from Heaven. It very emotional for Jesus. He finally can answer the prayers of the innocent from the persecution by the Church of 2000 years. Interesting, yes, eternity is the purpose. If the rapture came now at any moment the Church would never be prepared for eternity. God's mercy isn't letting the Church skate through to Heaven at the expense of the innocent. God's love encompasses these prayers that demand justice and for His love for those that persecuted them will bring them to understand what it means to persecute the innocent. An example: to condemn gays is in God's eyes murdering them. So if you say gay is sin you condemn them to hell without hope in God. You don't believe this now, but you will. So, if you can imagine you have killed (murdered)600 million people then you can understand what you have done to gays. These people will forgive you with love that you can't understand. You will learn that lesson in love that will nourish your faith back to health in time for the Rapture. God Bless you
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