Gays For Jesus
(wife of ex-gay leader) Nancy: When I was twenty-two, God revealed to me that Don was gay. My reply: So you never knew he was gay for 6 years and one year before you married him God told you.
Comments in reply to Nancy's testimony at LifeGuard
My Next Husband Will Be Perfect: His Name Is Jesus
God took my pain and sorrow of dealing with my husband's homosexuality and used it to make me strong, secure, and contented in the Lord.
My name is Nancy Brown. My husband, Don, and I direct LifeGuard Ministries, an ex-gay ministry affiliated with Exodus International. We have been married for more than twenty years and are the parents of five children. I have known Don since I was sixteen years old.
Now Don is as close to being the perfect husband as anyone I have ever seen. But it was not always that way.
I felt almost as soon as we met that Don was going to be important in my life. By the time we started college, I knew he was the man I wanted to marry. When I was twenty-two, God revealed to me that Don was gay. I was astounded! I knew very little about homosexuality, and so at first I was relieved to think that I wouldn't have to be concerned about competing with other women for Don's affections. If God informed me, then He would surely protect me. He would help me make my dream of marrying Don come true anyway.
^i^ Starting with a lot of confusion here. Was Don 16 too? You started college together, this seems to indicate he was at least very close to your age. It took God 6 years to tell you Don was gay right? Yes many straights are a bit naïve about gays. A common thing with straight men is they could think of nothing better than to have sex with a lesbian couple. It's their fantasies. It is a counterdiction to terms too. But what you are saying you knew him for 6 years, I wonder if you dated him? Once my older sister was concerned I'd steal her and her friends boyfriends away until she saw I like Asians. Kind of stupid huh? Well now that you run LifeGuard I guess you have found out it doesn't work that way. But for you it was you that seduced a gay man right? Sop far no real info about he was really gay. As for you Nancy you are starting out weird.
After seven years, God did in fact make my dream come true: Don and I were married.
^i^ Its more weird than ever, you married a gay person? Get a life, maybe a bisexual. It still hard to believe you hadn't a clue he was gay?????
From the time we married Don and I have been involved in the ex-gay movement. On our honeymoon, we found a book that contained Frank Worthen's address, and so we wrote to him. He faithfully advised us for several years. But despite his good counsel, we faced many problems that were hard to overcome. Today wives of homosexuals have support groups and videos and books and tapes to encourage them. But the real issue for wives now is the same as it was when I first married. It's not between the husband and the wife but between the wife and God her Father, Husband, and Lord.
^i^ So you never knew he was gay for 6 years and one year before you married him God told you. Was God speaking or giving you a feeling? Did someone prophesy? Were missing lots so far, maybe later you will fill in the blanks. Can you image starting a ex-gay ministry with your husband one year after you learned he was gay after know him 6 years before that? Well now, see I have to learn who this Frank is. Is he the original Life Guard. Bet Don likes that idea. Yes, women of ex-gay men have lots of problems, its much worst when the men haven't told them, but in your case you had a 7 year hots for Don and who could stop you? Right now I see real trouble developing as I really want to find ex-gay leaders that have normal gay testimonies. So far after some 40 testimonies of ex-gay leaders I haven't even come close to finding anything but men that were in such "victim set" behavior with lives so full of anything but searching for truth. They have been so miserable. No wonder when ex-gay men and women se me on-line in a Christian chat room right away say to me things that they assume I too have such a miserable childhood guilt ridden life. Well it's a no wonder because every testimony I have read of these leader are pathetic. I am nearly 51 years old and nearly 24 in the Lord(baptized in the Holy Spirit). I started going to the gay community in 1968. At first to dancing bars then various places and when I got saved gay churches. I also went to some very large gatherings too. Like Reno changed for 4 day a year into a completely gay city. Not a place you could go where everyone wasn't gay. Who knows where the straights went. They mostly were country western interested people and they no doubt came to party while the Rodeo wasn't running. I was with my lover and it we weren't drinkers we were Christians. Just wanted to see the Rodeo and a million gays all in one place. I have see gays and most are not the sickos I am reading about in ex-gay leaders testimonies. It wasn't a Christian gathering , but so what, straights have tons of non-Christian gathering too and that doesn't mean we judge them worse. Many go are Christian, many go to drug and drink and sex, just like straights. Over all gays have no different lives the straights. Some are miserable some are very happy. I was not to bad off most my life and generally carefree and had a good life and no one bothered me about me being gay. When I became a Christian I studied the Word of God in depth to learn about this hatred the Church seem to have towards gays. I found gay is not sin and that was just find. I did not care to try to change anyone that believed gay to be sin. It was a way to big a job and I knew when we all get to Heaven God would tell everyone. Well I was wrong. I had studied and I knew gay was not sin. I didn't just skim the surface I always enjoyed seeking truth (that is a mistake of atheists because God is truth). I also enjoyed many things about life's past and future. And unintentionally I learned lots of things. I still love learning things and I am still learning tons of stuff. I have talked to in the 1st 3 years of my television ministry some 300,000 people and 75% were homophobic. I am trying to give you some sort of background so you might have a chance to think I could know a few things worth listen to. I know I am wasting my time, but that's ok too. What ever I say you will reject now anyway. It is not time for the Church to understand. The cup is almost to the brim and when it reaches the brim God always moves. God told me basically to forget about any waiting to Heaven to tell everyone. He will not have it that way. It will be done before anyone gets to Heaven. Why he wanted me to do it I'll never know. I just wanted to be like everyone else. Get some good singers together and go out preaching Jesus. BUT GOD. God said go now and tell them what I have shown you. He began preparing me way before I was saved, but gave me his Word very soon after I was saved, but it was 1985 when it was revealed dramatically to me to understand what he has been telling about I was to go out and do the best I can showing what I see of the vision God put before my eyes. I was never told to convince anyone. I was told that day would come when God would do the convincing. When that day comes most Christian will not like it, but its to late they must fell it and see it and know its God doing it.
^i^ For those that aren't sure of the meaning( this is not another word for gay is sin):
also nar·cism (-sîz´em)
1.Excessive love or admiration of oneself. See synonyms at conceit.
2.Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
- nar¹cis·sist noun
- nar´cis·sis¹tic adjective
- nar´cis·sis¹ti·cal·ly adverb
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition
One of the first problems that impacted my relationship with Don was his narcissism. He made all decisions without regard to my needs or desires. If he liked it, I could do it; if he didn't, I didn't need to do it either. As romantics we women often assume that our husbands will always be the men that courted and pursued us unto marriage. We come to realize after marriage that this is not so, but when homosexuality is involved that lesson is often brutally clear and painful. I always reworked my schedule, saying "no" to my family and friends, constantly making excuses so that they would not see Don's selfishness.
^i^ How dumb. You already used the wrong word to describe this supposed gay husband of yours. Another thing yes there are people everywhere that behave as you describe Don did (does). You even are putting women into a roll, Promise Keepers would love ya. There are horribly selfish men and women in the world and gay has nothing to do with it. You just are a very good story teller are you. Just say he is a pig and let go on with it. I bet you will find more decent gays in the world than straights. I sure have and I like straights. . . It is indeed hard when a spouse is uncooperative when dealing with family. I was at one of these sales presentations and the husband had an awful scowl on his face and the sales presentor tried to get it off, but he ran out later coming back and said loudly 30 minutes. The time the presentor said it would take him to finish. It is not fun living with such people, but God helps a lot in these cases. But to use this in a case against gays is ridiculous.
Don has grown immensely in this area. In fact, because I have a disabling disease, it is pretty much the other way around now. He puts my desires first.
^i^ So why don't you explain he has problems as a human that is common to all, instead as somehow blending this in as a testimony of deliverance from being gay.
Another side of narcissism is an inability to express love and respect in ordinary or commonly accepted ways, such as giving birthday and Christmas presents. Many husbands don't give gifts at all. Don always gave a gift, but he did not always give the selection much thought. He gave gifts out of compulsion instead of choice, so he purposely chose something of no use to make me aware of his resentment. Narcissists often think that they are different from everyone else, so rules and morals do not apply to them. You can see how quickly narcissism can promote hurt, anger, and bitterness in a relationship.
^i^ The truth is coming out. You are the pathetic one after all. You need to be the center of attention. Someone hurts you if they don't get the gift you wanted. The more I read the more you demand of a relationship. You want him to change while you bask in your wantonness.
Narcissism is defined as an "excessive admiration of one's self. An arresting of development in which one's own body is the object of erotic interest." That leaves a wife out of the erotic picture doesn't it? Because of my physical disabilities I never considered myself to be a "sex goddess" but I did assume that my husband would make me the object of his affections. As a Christian I believed that Don's affection was not only my due but my inalienable right. From the very beginning, although we had a sexual relationship, it was not what I had expected.
^i^ Now the picture broadens. I don't want to sound down on your limitations, but you have a whole set of built in personal problems you just now brought into the equation. What a violation of the reader. Were years into your relationship before we found out you have a pour self image due to your limitations. This is understandable and you had to overcome many obstacles, but this does not give you the freedom to condemn gays or your husband for maybe not living up to your dream man you told us about. Your dream was crushed when you married and he turned out to be a pig.
I was a virgin when we married, and was sheltered. Don filled me in very quickly as to what he was used to sexually. But I felt that for Don sex was more for his enjoyment than for mine-- not an expression of his love for me as much as an outlet for him. This is not how marriage should be! I felt as though I was on the outside of my life looking in. I felt as though an invisible mistress lived in our house. Everything we did, said, thought, or fought about was filtered through that persona. I did not know what it was. I did not know how it got there. I did not know that I had nothing to do with its being there, and I did not know that I could learn to live with it, and overcome its effect on my life. With Satan's help, I blamed myself. If I am a better cook, cleaner, spender of household money, lover, looker whatever--this would not be a problem in my marriage, I thought. I did know two things: it was more than I could change or bear, and I could not tell anyone else. But God was faithful; He held onto me until I learned the truth.
^i^ You had a dream idea of what a marriage should be like, but never thought it would take work to make it work. Straight marriages are at 50-60% divorce rate. Too much dreamland ideas about what a marriage is. A marriage is hard work. What did the Bible say about this?
Matt 19:10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." (NIV)
1 Cor 7:1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. (NIV)
1 Cor 7:28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. (NIV)
^i^ There are plenty of places that says you have to work at your marriage. Now, Jesus has plenty of good thing to say to and God has promises to those who are in good standing.
Ps 5:12 For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield. (NIV)
Ps 23:6 Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever. (NIV)
Exod 23:22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you. (NIV)
Ps 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; (NIV)
John 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. (NIV)
^i^ Why are so many families hurting. I have seen so many Christian families in dire straights. WHY? How long do Christian families need to suffer? Why are so many Christian parent's kids in so much trouble. Do you think the kids in jail are all from unbeliever's homes? I have been around. Pastor's kids stray like dogs. It is really nice to hear of wonderful things God is doing in some people's lives, but very often families goes through a lot of pain. Kids rebel way beyond what the Word of God says. God says love and obey him and he will take care of the problems. He never meant well after your kids grew up. Like I always say, go to pastor's office ask how many hurting families that don't seem to get help. Certainly many do get help.
Lev 26:3-4 3 "If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, 4 I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees of the field their fruit.
Lev 26:14-16 14 "'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. (NIV)
^i^ Please take time to read all of Lev 26. It has 4 stages of the above, this one is the 1st stage. God goes into details what he will do if you are living right and what he will do if you are not. This chapter is prophetic as well. We are in the 4th stage today. And the Church still is not obeying God as he is explaining in ch. 26. God will take 1260 days to break the power of the Church very soon. However, these also apply for Christians. If Christian behave as they should then their families would never see hurt and pain or poverty. There is a catch here. The CHURCH influences the even those Christians that are living close to God's will and so they receive the consequences of chastisement, but they can reach God easier and get help faster in some cases. But all to often the innocent suffer the result of Church sin. If the Church as a whole kept in line with God then we'd have plenty of peace and blessings. The Church is not right with God and so causes the innocent great difficulty receiving blessings from God. The Church in the case of gays has abandon them and disowned them for nearly 700 years. What you are doing today is re-emphasizing the 700 year old anti-gay doctrine. You may think this is what God wants but it is not. Ex-gay ministries are putting the final touches that will fill the cup to the brim. And when the cup is full God moves.
Along with narcissism came isolating. Don chose not to see, hear or relate to me in any way. Most times he would isolate when we were alone, but he was good enough at it that he was able to isolate in a crowd, and I was the only one who knew he was doing it. I consider this to be the ultimate rejection. I felt as though he would rather be anywhere but with me. He would go to another place in his mind right before my eyes, a place that I could not get to and that I do not even exist in.
Sometimes Don's excuses sounded legitimate: he needed to work late, he needed a nap, he needed to log onto the computer. Don in isolating had a perfect opportunity to be alone with the enemy. I found this to be just as disturbing as narcissism. I hated the feeling that Don, whom I shared my life with, did not need me or want me. Instead, he preferred spending time in the yard, reading a book, listening to music, or just lying on the bed to having even the most perfunctory conversation with me.
Even worse was the fact that Don could be very moody when he was isolating. He sometimes said very hurtful things. Satan reminds me even to this day of Don's words from those days, and they still hurt me. Even when Don's isolation and mood swings were over, my pain continued. Don would, in an effort to sear his conscience, act as though I was acting spoiled or overemotional because I was still hurt. This constant state of flux almost did me in. I became frustrated, hurt, and angry. I pushed too hard to get Don's attention. Then Don would get mad and vindictive.
Isolating is painful for the family and dangerous to the homosexual overcomer. God was gracious. He gave me the strength to get through this time of growth in my life.
^i^ This is really about a straight marriage that has a great deal of problems and so far nothing to do with the gay issues. Nancy you should go get help with a counselor outside any ex-gay issues. I am glad for that God gave you strength, but it sounds more like you are the problem. You yourself have quite an emotional demand. If I want to hear straight spouses complain about their spouses I can hear I want at work. I wonder if you confided with your husband when you wrote this to get his side of the story. Guess I have to wade through your personal problems before I get to the point your testimony is available at an ex-gay site. Isolating? I wonder who taught you this word. Sounds more like you hen picked him so much he just wanted to get away from you. Maybe its just your style of writing?
Emotional Brokenness and Gender Confusion
How can I handle the thought of Don's past activites with other men? Because I have learned that homosexuality is an emotional brokenness which starts in early childhood. Don sought affirmation in relationships with other men. It has little to do with sex. It was his childlike attempt to feel valued and worthy in the eyes of another man. This attempt is at some point sexualized and then carried over into adulthood. Although Don's homosexual activity was painful for me to hear about and think about, he wasn't acting out of spite, nor rejecting me personally. That perspective helped me to view Don's sin with less pain. My pain came in knowing that Don did not have my feelings or best interests in heart when he acted out.
I think you got a book and read it to assign these funny perceptions you have. Why wasn't I in emotional brokenness? Why is it just those that go to ex-gay ministries end up with emotional brokenness? And see just another messed up person, has nothing to do with being gay or straight just getting into a victim set personallity.
As a small boy, Don felt that his father did not prefer him, did not even approve of him. Thus Don viewed his mother as his primary role model. He eventually picked up some of her speech patterns, her mannerisms, and her passive attitude toward her husband. Later when Don was involved in relationships with other men, he took the passive role. When we married, this gender confusion prevented him from becoming the head of our household. He would be overly passive. I soon began to feel angry and cheated. I had long dreamed of being the object of this man's desire and affection, and it was not happening. I was not the "tradional" wife as I understood the Bible.
^i^ Let see is it a 100 million or 500 million or ever more straights in this kind of situation, why aren't they gay? Now look here he acts what you say is woman like. Boy what an example of a gay person. Nearly all ex-gay leaders also acted like a girl. Why aren't there any leaders there that never had a thought of doing girl things. You should be embarrassed to provide yet another inconsistent testimony concerning gays. Most gays you can't tell if the are gay or straight because they are the vast majority of gays. Perhaps effeminate gays (but in ex-gay leaders its not gay its bisexual) may have a tougher time because they are expected to be a MAN and so get much more hassle from homophobes and so some are prone to get into victim set especially when they have no access to the gay community.
I didn't learn that in my own home of origin. My father died when I was nine and my Mother worked outside the home until I was a senior in high school. Therefore I never really saw a married couple interacting on a daily basis. Because my mother was always at work when I came home from school, I became independent and self-reliant. When I became a Christian, I learned Bible doctrine on marriage. I came to understand that God wanted me to be a help suitable for Don and to be submissive to him.
^i^ So since your dad died why aren't you gay, oh your mom is still alive. But why aren't you ruint? Listen to your bragging on how you over came this problem. You mean gays can't over come a dead dad? You did not learn Bible on marriage! You prove it by living in a dream world concerning marriage. Had you learnt Bible you would know it would not be easy and it could be very painful and sticking it out could be very hard. The Apostles even at one point said it is not good to marry.
Matt 19:10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." (NIV)
^i^ The neat thing hear is verse 11 &12 basically says from Jesus' mouth "gay is not sin". To the one that studies in depth you can find that in Jesus' day every thought eunuchs were all gay or most were gay. What's more Jesus says most can't accept his teaching on this. So if you sit back and go into the general teaching today on this verse you call Jesus a liar because he said it would be difficult for most, though he really wanted you to understand. Literature confirms it was common to assume all eunuchs were gay. Here is one ancient writing:
The Kama Sutra: Part II
OF THE AUPARISHTAKA OR MOUTH CONGRESS
THERE are two kinds of eunuchs, those that are disguised as males, and those that are disguised as females. Eunuchs disguised as females imitate their dress, speech, gestures, tenderness, timidity, simplicity, softness and bashfulness. The acts that are done on the jaghana or middle parts of women, are done in the mouths of these eunuchs, and this is called Auparishtaka.1 These eunuchs derive their imaginable pleasure, and their livelihood from this kind of congress, and they lead the life of courtesans. So much concerning eunuchs disguised as females.
Eunuchs disguised as males keep their desires secret, and when they wish to do anything they lead the life of shampooers. Under the pretence of shampooing, a eunuch of this kind embraces and draws towards himself the thighs of the man whom he is shampooing, and after this he touches the joints of his thighs and his jaghana, or central portions of his body. Then, if he finds the lingam of the man erect, he presses it with his hands and chaffs him for getting into that state. If after this, and after knowing his intention, the man does not tell the eunuch to proceed, then the latter does it of his own accord and begins the congress. If however he is ordered by the man to do it, then he disputes with him, and only consents at last with difficulty.
The following eight things are then done by the eunuch one after the other:
(not added because your husband may get excited)
1 This practice appears to have been prevalent in some parts of India from a very ancient time. The Shustruta, a work on medicine some two thousand years old, describes the wounding of the lingam with the teeth as one of the causes of a disease treated upon in that work. Traces of the practice are found as far back as the eighth century, for various kinds of the Auparishtaka are represented in the sculptures of many Shaiva temples at Bhuvaneshwara, near Cuttack, in Orissa, and which were built about that period. From these sculptures being found in such places, it would seem that this practice was popular in that part of the country at that time.
^i^ I had only read studies about the existence of the writing which along with others show that people though eunuchs were gay including Israel. God is so good now I have the text of several chapters a click away.
When I married I was eager to do just that, but I soon realized that I had married a man who really had no desire for a woman to stand beside him and support him. Don did not want to be the head of the household by making decisions, but he became infuriated if they were not made in accordance with his--usually unspoken--will. I quickly learned that appealing to him on the basis of reason or compassion were of no use. Many times during our first years or "honeymoon" period I heard him say, "Go ahead and cry, it doesn't bother me a bit." It was a vicious cycle.
^i^ Guess what God is so good. In a gay relationship there is no problem with who is the head of the house. Yet, in straight marriages this sometimes is a big problem. You can use the Bible as a club all you want some straight men just won't be the head of the house. God also gave women provision operate as head. You may think the man is in error, but he is not, some women are suppose to be the head. "Thus Saith The Lord". Though you are now talking a little into his bisexuality you still center on yourself and your victim set personality dealing with a crushed pipe dream wedding.
(I realize I am making my husband look like a first class heel. That just goes to show you how wonderful God is, because as I said at the beginning, now Don is as close to being the perfect husband as anyone I have ever seen.)
^i^ Your HUSBAND emphasis, can't be gay in any sense and apparently slightly bisexual or its just plain you don't want to deal with it. It is more fun to make the other person bad and you good, at least you sure seem to enjoy your pity party. My 1st lover was fabulous and we got along great, I was in 7th heaven for a few years. Then I met Jesus and their was competition for him. It was ok for a year, but my changed life took a toll though he was a nominal Christian. I hurt a lot over the long break up, but it was a carbon copy of any straight marriage that one spouse got saved and the other wouldn't come around no mater how many prayed. I know what happened, the old unequally yoked applied. You went through a relationship not born in love and you fought to force love to manifest. Why he stayed with you just count your blessing if that is what it is to you. But don't stand here and lead us on that he is bad because he is gay (bisexual). This testimony sounds to much light an ordinary straight couple having problems.
Whereas in the beginning I was relieved not to have to compete with another woman, I was now faced with a man who expected to be pursued and seduced by me, exactly as I had expected to be pursued and seduced by him. I was confused and frustrated; I felt deprived and abandoned. I demanded that he lead our home, but he responded by feeling hurt because I didn't fill his dinner plate as his mother always had and other such trivial (in my opinion) situations. I was getting mixed signals. Am I Don's wife or his mother? I thought. "Is Don my covering and my protection or am I his? I felt like a failure. My marriage was a sham. I felt worthless and ashamed that I could not make things work or make Don or myself happy. I was fearful that Don would get fed up and decide to go back into the gay life. The enemy kept saying, "What did you expect? Did you think that anyone was really ever going to love you? Look at yourself. Your own father disliked you so much he chose death over life with you. Did you really think that marriage was something to bring you pleasure? Did you really think Don was going to prefer you to his former lovers?" It was a continual battle. I needed spiritual weapons to route the enemy and to stop his tongue. All this time God was carrying me safely in His arms.
^i^ See your testimony sounds in many ways like ex-gay leaders just pathetic. Why aren't you gay? Don would never ever, again never ever go back as a gay person. He was never ever gay, don't you get it? He was BISEXUAL. A vast difference. Just like even though you have been together this long if you divorce he may go to the gay side of his bisexuality. Perhaps now its has become buried in living the straight side. So we can wait and see if your marriage last. You can stay in your pipe dream as long as you wish, but reality will knock one day. Don to remain a Christian in good standing has to come to terms with God. Soon 1260 days are set to break the power of the Church and a huge and most significant issue is that of the condemnation of so many innocent gays. Laugh if you like. I did not come here and spend this kind of time writing to you and the other 40 plus ex-gay for my health. I have utterly no reason too. I was just fine, but GOD said go tell them the truth. I don't care if you don't believe me, that not my responsibility. What is about to happen to you will happen, plain as day. God loves as you believe and so He is coming to you with a message that now you can not accept. I wish you would, but you can't. God's way is going to hurt very much even to though that are relatively willing to listen and even to those that are as right as a human can get with God will go through lot of pain. 3 billion people will die before its over. This may be a joke to you, but it is not to me and so no matter what your silly statement to me to try to poke holes in your testimony, I am here not to poke holes in it but to give you glimpses into what you will find if you look and what soon will come to pass concerning the Church. I will spend this time with you then I am gone. What can you hear through your clouded mind if you but listen. It may sound as though I am mocking you. The appearance of the mock is like a parable. You have your mind made up and so you will remember my words as these mocks at the proper time and then must deal with the issue. God will not decide for you. You just have to get through the 3 billion dying around you and one might be you. This space of time is called wedding gown fitting period and the wedding gown fit so perfectly that it hurts willing getting it on and you may have an additional 75 day to fit it properly so you can enter the Temple. I have just told you Bible, bet you got a bit confused. Your body has very bad bumps in it and for the gown to fit those bumps must go and it hurts to remove the bumps and you will fight God to leave them on. God's plan is so good and will insure your life to be eternally with God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Would you I speak to you concerning how you can see and understand the days a head so you won't be confused and think Jesus lied to you in the Bible? Or should I have to continue with you concerning your error about gays?
Wounded Inner Child
Being married to someone who is not on the same maturity level as other adults is a kind of unequal yoke. Don's inner child could throw a tantrum when I was in the worst possible state of mind to deal with it. Invariably this is the time when the enemy would remind me, "You don't have to put up with this." Don once threw a fit in front of our children and said the most hateful things to me because I volunteered to serve a meal at the funeral of one of my relatives and Don had to stay home to watch the kids by himself. I asked myself, "Why me? What did I do to deserve this? Why can't Don grow up and see what a spoiled helpless child he really is?" Maybe you would consider getting out of such a marriage altogether. Many women have. But if you love your husband, if you really believe that God brought you together, and if you really believe God, then you will do what I did. You will ask God to show you how to deal with your husband's wounded inner child.
^i^ "So you think your mature?" hmmmm. I don't, but you knew that. Sorry you are looking at the above experience in all the wrong ways. Blame satan all you want. Satan's real power has been working in the USA Church for over 80 years. The plan is very little actual invisible magical spiritual acts of subtly suggesting things to make you think badly and may act likewise. If this were so it would be as simple as get out in Jesus name. But satan has been at this since the Garden. After the Flood he got to one of Noah's son's or son's son. They all knew the Day's of Noah. You know Cain's inventiveness. Cain invented things and built things and he had nearly 1000 years to do it which ultimately brought everybody but Noah's family into it. After the Flood one of Noah's son was bad enough that some scholars have the gall to say God made him black for his sin and so the birth of blacks. The Mormon's say a 13th tribe of Hebrews came to the now USA and later Jesus came and told them he died on the cross back in Israel, it all a neat enough story and would make a great movie, but later they sinned too much a Jesus changed them into Indians. I don't buy these kinds of stories, but the groundwork is laid that one of Noah's sons did have a bad streak and perhaps this was the beginning of the restoration of the Day's of Noah. Today the group traces it beginning to that period and that secrets of pre-Flood were handed down till today and in remarkable condition. Their goal has and is to have a re-birth of those days before the Flood. They had tremendous advances in technology after all 1000 years with out dying. And all your help not dying either. And Cain was an inventor. Anyway they have succeeded. This century they set as goals to buy all the media and to infiltrate the USA Church. Especially the Sunday schools. Their purpose to subtly ever so slightly modify the teaching. Almost so that no one can tell it happened. They people bought and paid for almost every war for both sides. Russia and the US are really partners. The hate was generated for effect and purpose to set people in a condition to want a one world gov't. Through the media the plan is to divide the population down the middle on every issue. Just look at all the 50/50 issues. The Church is probably ready now for, I think it is completely ready as with almost every facet of the world take over, the great confusion. The Church let go of the Last Days as God told it. We think we will slip by and miss it all. The Bible explains we won't and in fact the purpose is not to wipe out unbelievers. That has never been God's purpose. He raises nations to chastise His people and so it is this way now. We can not have the kind of evil we see without Church sin. All God's promises tells us this would never happen, but if we disobey then how bad it will be? Were to the full on every thing. Right now a Lord Maitreya meets with 200 world leaders, the Vatican, Protestant leaders. There are also 10 regional leaders meeting with them. This is to decide how to announce Lord Matreya as world leader. This name means high than Jesus in fact Jesus' teacher. You see satan's power is not to magically make occult things happen and some how merge magically together and some completely unknown person with really no credentials to somehow escalate to antichrist. This Last Days is as well planned as the Bible is written and has to be. God did not take time to put the whole Bible together to tell us about a future momentary event. Men have done satan's biding by hand me down secrets made before the Flood. Every conceivable secret society is not independent of each other though nearly all of their member may believe so. Witches are not separate from this plan, but most haven't a clue that they are part of a master plan the really few know about. The Church has said satan's teletype went out over the air waves to mediums around the world to say things through the many variety of groups all eventually leading to the formation of antichrist's kingdom. This is not true. Men have spoken to men their secret knowledge from before the Flood to only an elite few. While most members think they are doing good actually are preparing for the coming one world government. Yes satan does with his demons move spiritually and these can be cast out, but the big stuff can't be touched because no demon need be present. Soon events will happen that you would not think would happen because you believed it would not happen this way. So much so that you will be deceived outright or begin thinking Jesus lied to you. Your very faith will be shakened to the core. There will be people saying things and you will see church leaders every where hating these people. 1230 days will go by and if you are still alive a man will become the leader, but he won't be so obvious against Christians and won't appear he would be an antichrist until after he is seated in power. While you watch him on TV he will heal you and make you feel like God is there. Its technology not his spirit or God's. It already works. He will seem to be able to travel instantly a great distant in front of many witnesses. The internet will be the link and it is about to make some major leaps to make it so real. Today a major name they go by is Counsel on Foreign Relations. You should have received the list of some names of the people influencing daily. Satan does not need to bother you on gay issue very much you are so indoctrinated by the 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine you can't see the true in front of you. You are so quick to blame him and he loves it. Means his plan works. It's a lie though his plan fails two humans will approach him while he is in antichrist and win by dying. You will see it if you make it that far. The Rapture comes with in 75 days after they die and are raised. At that time the Temple is opened, the Mystery accomplished, and the Rewards given. Three criteria for the Rapture all done at the 7th trumpet "The Last trumpet".
One way to deal with a wounded inner child is to be accountable. Accountability is essential to overcoming any besetting sin, homosexuality included. God expects us to be accountable to His word: "Hide My word in your hearts." God expects us to be accountable to other Christians, too. As new Christians we dream of doing wonderful deeds for the Lord, we dream of having great success in some mission field, we dream of being a witness who can do wonders to show how Jesus is the Savior of the world. God answered my "Why me?" by showing me how I could do those things in my home with my family.
God showed me that I was my husband's first line of defense against sin. God put me in place to pray, to rebuke the enemy, and to hold the line at home, so that my husband had a haven of love and safety to come home to, and so that he could grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord. At times I had to listen to Don's confessions of painful and disgusting things. I could have been selfish and said, "That is too much. What about my needs?" Sometimes I was selfish. But God is patient. He knew my heart. He soothed my ruffled feathers and helped me keep going. I am so grateful to God that He did.
^i^ To overcome a sin you have to know it's a sin. This entire testimony only assume gay is sin. Every ex-gay leaders testimony assume gay is sin and never goes into any searching of the Word of God to see if it really says this or not. You are a homophobic person so your prayers are misinformed and though you pray for your husband you speak plain right out condemnation to the 600 million gays world wide. Every time your mouth opens or a thought goes through your head against gays, meaning you think it sin and so base your speaking and thought, you actually commit 600 million murders in your heart and soul. For you this just is the most ridiculous and as I said who cares what you think, I am telling what is going on behind the scenes of you mouth. I bet if we were too get down to the nity griddy we would find you were often in complete victim set in your prayers to God and otherwise far from any concern for DON because he wasn't Mr. perfect. Tons of times you weren't at all willing to continue at this marriage, but thoughts of being single was very frightening and so a lot of motivation to stay was not love for Don as much as you want us to believe. You also were in victim set as your story tells us at every turn. You were locked into a mild abusive relationship like an addiction. In your case it apparently as of the time you write work out fairly well for you anyway. You won, you were victor, you fought for the man you wanted and got him, who cares the cost to your kids or to him. It sounds like a selfish woman who is very controlling won out in the end and maybe he has just given up to be your slave. It sounds like you not God molded him into your perfect idea of a husband. I can give you the benefit of the doubt hey you could have a nice marriage finally too. But nothing at all it testimonial to gay is sin and God delivers gay people. Your testimony is how you won never giving an inch for someone else space. He had to do all the giving. I guess by magic we haven't been able to see where Don talked to people or study Bible or broke down and begged forgiveness for his mean treatment of you. But God is magic right? Sorry, God is truth and you can image all that you want, but you can not change the Bible word "sodomite" into homosexual. A sodomite still is a temple prostitute today just as it was when it was first penned in the Bible. And your testimony provides no answers to dealing with the facts of the Bible.
Through this time, God showed me His love, His plan, His protection, and His forgiveness. God showed me how important I am to Him. God showed me how I could use His strength when I was weak. Don grew and changed and so did I. Don grew to be the husband and father that I had dreamed he would be. Because I knew all the gory details of my husband's sin, I became sensitive to things that triggered him to be tempted. I learned to be compassionate to his pain and his burden of sin. I came to understand the power of prayer, and how to rebuke the enemy with confidence. I came to the place where I was willing to lay aside my own needs in order to hold up the arms of my husband, and even to stand in front of him if necessary. I learned to pray for him when I least wanted to because of a less than perfect attitude (on both our parts) and rebuke the enemy when Don was too weak to resist. As I sacrificed my own needs, God fulfilled and completed me in ways that I never dreamed were possible. I came to know beyond a doubt that God had not given me a spirit of fear, but of power, and might and a sound mind.
^i^ If you have such confidence on rebuking the enemy then why don't you put your mouth to action. So many homophobes believes satan is involved or demons. Yet I see only they unsuspecting innocent attacked by homophobes. I have so many stories and none that showed demons leaving, but how horror from Christians was manifest. I have a standing challenge to anyone. Lets see who has the demon. I love Jesus and he is with me. Call your pastor set up a meeting with your church under the full operation coming under a pastor. Deacons, Elders, and other ministers, and the whole congregation. Lets go to the alter at your pastors church and call on God. Your church first getting a hold of God in all it know how to. Casting out demons, etc. preaching, what and however long your pastor thinks is needed to reach God and make their presentation. Then after submitting my self to what all you that believe gay is sin can do in the manner of your faith I will then do like wise. Lets see who God hears. With 600 millions gays you and your husband leaders of your ministry to ex-gays don't care enough to get together faith in what you believe? Demons must flee and so if I demanded mine to stay it would still have to go out when you commanded it. Everyone would see a change in me. Now that demon could go and find 7 worst ones and return. You have double proof as that last state would be worst than the first. I have confidence God will move, can't you. Yet, I God will have to force this on you ( believe he will the cup is right at the brim) When you accept Jesus you said make something beautiful out of my life. Well God will take you up on that as you gave him permission to do what ever to get you ready for eternity with him. You could take first steps and think about what I say and go to your pastor and if he says no you did not stop for your husband will you stop for the 600 million gays that will be represented in such a challenge if taken up. Will you convince your pastor? I doubt it you are in blindness like the Nation of Israel who in a moment will see whom the pierced so will the Church begin to see the innocent they trampled on.
Daniel 3:17 says "The God we serve is able and He will." And He did! God brought me to a place of understanding how much He loved me, and how far He would go to make me happy. He blessed me with contentment and happiness, as He always intended for me.
^i^ For accuracy lets see just what is the context. So often we just take things way out of the story being told.
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up." (NIV)
^i^ As I thought 3 pillars were thrown in the fire and even if you apply this to your life the context says God just might not do it, and you serve him regardless of whether he will or won't. The topic here is serving other gods. Its nice to use a phrase out of God's words to grasp some kind of hope. You should say though I die I serve God. Though Don never comes round and your house is hell you'll serve God no less or no more if God blesses you. It sounds like it took a very long time to get you marriage the way you wished. I will say that because though its better now it will change because you have based it on your victim set mental state. What would happen if a gay Christian came into your lives and was sent by God to point out you are wrong. Would this upset you? I am talking not of a rights activist. I am talking about a messenger from God to your house. You will probably twist these words, God will go to homophobes and will move in their lives. Humans can't do this. They can only be a mouth piece. God is about to sanctify Himself in Christian gays in Christians that believe gay is sin sight.
Besides coming to know God's care, I learned at least nine principles that can help a wife to understand her husband's homosexuality.
^i^ HA has 14 hmm you only need 9. . . .
1. Men and women are different.
Have you noticed how hard the enemy is working to make us forget this fact, how many things are unisex or neutral these days? That is the real plan behind the women's equality movement and homosexuality itself--to make us forget men and women are different and thereby to destroy our need for someone different from us. "A house divided cannot stand."
^i^ yeh, the family restroom for instance is unisex.
One important way in which men and women differ is how they relate to each other. Comparing the two of them is like comparing a hammer to a computer. Both are functional, vital, and desirable. But they have very different capabilities. A woman would go crazy "hammering" away at the same job day after day, and a man would be frantic if he had to try to sort socks and underwear for a large family and compute the way to feed that family on one week's budget. I am not after "one-upmanship" as to which role is better. I am after understanding. Two of the best examples I have of this are not related to homosexuality. That is important because we wives of homosexual overcomers tend to believe that if we could only have married "normal" men none of these problems would have occurred. There is no such thing as a normal man or woman. These two illustrations will help you to understand that.
^i^ You have really lost touch with reality. This lie you are preaching has been proven wrong ages ago. You haven't looked at the work force have you. Women have been at the same job doing the same thing forever. How many gay couples homes have you visited? The relationship works wonderfully. For the life of me I can't understand why the stereotype of women like to shop and get the housework done. Equally I can't for the life of me understand why my lover likes to shop and I bet he is ten times the housekeeper you could ever dream of. I find that gay couples don't have to decide anything. God took care of everything and it just naturally is there. One person seems to like the, as you wrongly assume about women, wife's works, if there really is such a thing. This doesn't mean he wants to be a woman on the contrary dear Nancy. What you are saying women have been fighting forever. There are many kinds of women and you can't class them in one small sissy group of probably something you can never have. My co-worker's husband is the "woman" of the house and it's a perfect match. If you want to pretend you are Biblical we can get into where a woman's place really is if you want the letter of the Word. I bet Don is very henpecked.
Lindsey Roberts, wife of evangelist Richard Roberts, tells of a time when she accidentally blew the front portion of her hair off her head while lighting a gas grill. She then wagered with her young daughters that their father would not even notice the difference when he came home. Guess who won the bet! Men are not observant. That is why women get away with as much as they do. Don't take advantage of that point and then use it against your husband. For example, don't buy a new dress, hang it in the closet, and then when he asks if it is new, say, "No, this thing has been in my closet forever." Don't pout if your husband doesn't notice your new haircut or doesn't change the oil in your car. Don't let the enemy use you to do a hatchet job on your husband's self-image.
^i^ WOW what and example the Robert's family, homophobes of homophobes. I wonder if you heard Oral I believe a 1980 January TBN conference spoke a long time completely trashing gays and when done Kenneth Copeland praise him for taking the job on. Have you seen Kenneth's mail to gays? I got one. My lover does not miss anything that happens no matter how slight, I can miss a truck. WHY? This women thing some how having gotten the monopoly on quality traits as you are implying just doesn't cut the mustard. Nancy you haven't a clue what life is do you. There are 6 billion people and you just can't rely on children's fairy tails to explain life in a nutshell. Life is very varied and wonderful. Your pipe dream may be another's nightmare.
My second example is taken from the book For Better or Best by Gary Smalley.
The woman intuitively has a greater awareness of how to develop a loving relationship. Because of her sensitivity, initially she is usually more considerate of his feelings and is enthusiastic about developing a meaningful, multilevel relationship: that is, a relationship having more facets than just a sexual partnership. She wants to be a lover, a best friend, a fan, a homemaker, and an appreciated partner. The man, on the other hand, does not generally have her intuitive awareness of what the relationship should become. He doesn't have an intuitive awareness of how to encourage and love his wife or how to treat her in a way that meets her deepest needs.
^i^ I bet I can out develop you making a caring loving relationship any day of the week. If you hold to these stupid myths then it's a no wonder you had such problems in you marriage. I've known too many women as friends and I've worked with plenty who talk about there home life. I have be around personally for decades in people that are married or have lovers. You story doesn't hold water. No wonder you are so easily duped with the lies about gays. You are so deep in fantasyland how can you distinguish real life from make believe? Life is better than you paint it.
Now I don't know about you, but that just about covers how my relationship with my husband went the first ten years of our marriage.
^i^ Nancy you are a sick woman. How can you judge men that way? If you were so good at this why did you have such misery those first years? Something ain't makin since here. I think you must have a real hate for men down inside you. I have never heard such nonsense (yes I have, I'm making a point). I think you need to grow up. In 24 years 15 every service I have not seen women in the Assemblies of God so brutalize men as you do. I guess you don't watch TV much either. It seems the man works overtime at romancing women and finding ways to please her they way TV generates what a woman's desires are. How many women books have you read. I have read plenty on the deepest areas of woman's autobiographical lives. I wasn't born yesterday. You may think gays are stupid I guess as well as all men. Don't judge so quickly. I have first hand info on your every thing that makes you tick. This doesn't make me able to get inside you, but I have studied women very thoroughly. I have forgotten about the depths into the personal lives of women I have studied. You certainly aren't speaking for most women. I have 2 sisters and for many years we talked about everything together. I just can't figure you out, you are a woman and you speak in such bazaar manner saying women got this thing over men. There indeed are some things, but you are turning a mole hill into a mountain. Keep it in perspective and stay with the mole hill you will have a much better grasp of what you want to convey.
By then I felt that everything that went wrong was because of Don's homosexuality. But remember, Gary Smalley is talking about men in general here. God encouraged me to find out about the various things besides homosexuality that could influence my marriage. I found help in other books besides those by Gary Smalley. The Act of Marriage by Tim LaHaye, Spirit Controlled Temperament by Tim LaHaye, and Understanding Male Temperaments by Tim LaHaye are a good place to start. Helpful books specifically on homosexuality are Pursuing Sexual Wholeness by Andy Comiskey, Coming Out of Homosexuality by Bob Davies and Lori Rentzel, Someone I Love IsGay by Bob Davies and Anita Worthen, and Unwanted Harvest by Mona Riley and Brad Sargent. These books have taught me to look at the whole picture of my husband as a Christian and a sinner and to rightly discern where a spiritual problem lies, and not to assume that every problem is his fault and up to him to correct because of his struggle with homosexuality.
^i^ The director of Exodus International never had a day in his life where he had sex with a man and he so quickly got the hots for a woman at an ex-gay ministry and married her. Busse and Cooper the founder of Exodus are lovers preaching they were very wrong in Exodus and they had a 100% failure rate. I have read many books by ant-gay authors which are past around the ex-gay ministry circuit and in libraries. In your list above there is not one book with the otherside of the story and not one book from PFLAG's references. WHY?
2. Wives whose husbands are homosexual are often co-dependent.
Because of my strong will I overcame codependency easily, but I did have to deal with it in the beginning of our marriage. If you feel that you have to act a certain way regardless of your desires or needs in order to insure your husband's behavior, if you have difficulty making decisions, if you always need other people's approval, if you feel powerless or trapped, if you feel ashamed or guilty, weak or insecure--then you are codependent. You need to understand six things:
^i^ Nancy codependent hogwash, your were in deep "victim set" just as bad as so far every ex-gay leader that I have read their testimony, about 40 of them. I have some 20 more to read. . .
- Happiness or sadness is your choice. ^i^ If you believe this then there is no hope. People needs help to get out of "victim set" personalities. To wish it away won't do it.
- God alone can satisfy your needs. ^i^ BUT you must reach out your hand and take what God gives you or it will pass you by until next time.
- God loves you for yourself. ^i^ Jesus loved you while you were yet a sinner.
- God is your true husband, and He is easily pleased. ^i^ Why do so many homophobes thinks gays think Jesus is gay? You are Jesus' Bride. Don is Jesus' Bride too. By the way do you both tell Jesus to wait in the living and watch TV while you and Don go in the bedroom? Or does Jesus come in with you to bed? There are lots of stories about this very thing in straight Christian couples groups every where. Jesus can be pleased to and he like humor too. It is really neat to feel his emotions. . . .
- You have a right to your feelings and a right to express them to your husband. ^i^ Well tell that to some marriages and you'll be laugh at. What are you going to do go to congress and make it a law? Some spouses just won't hear of your rights to your feelings. Marriages needs help to do something while they hurt. Beautiful saying or quotes from the Bible are nice, but won't help during an uproar. There is more to God than these good times sayings.
- You are responsible for your own actions only. In other words, you did not make this problem and you cannot fix it. ^i^ NANCY you made plenty of your problems in this marriage. You counterdict yourself here too. You say you are responsible then you did not make the problem. Nancy you had a pipe dream and real life didn't match you expectation and you ruled the household till you got your way and made it fit your pipe dream. Who Don is now is the result of you demands. Maybe even so God made it work out ok in spite of you victim set way of life for so long.
Trust God! ^i^ So far your story is not of trusting God but demanding it work out your way, period.
3. Idealism causes a great many problems in marriage
. As little girls we begin to plan our lives. The Bible warns us about running ahead of God. Even so, girls dream of their wedding, their kids, and their houses even when they are young. Usually this is very innocent. In my case, God showed me that my attitude toward Don was birthed from my unfulfilled expectation that my marriage would be like my childhood dream. As a parent I avoid comparisons among my children. However, I do not always refrain from comparing my husband with other women's husbands or even comparing myself with my childhood expectations of what married life could be like.
^i^ Still in victim set. By the way little boys also plan out their lives in similar fashion. So try to keep it to a mole hill and not a mountain.
For example, when I was twenty-seven I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Two years later Don and I were married. When I was thirty-four, the first of our five children was born. We had four of those five children in five years. Imagine how hectic our lives were! During those years we were not only building a family but a business and a ministry. Our home often looked like a war zone. Once, Don became so exasperated at the constant chaos in our house that he told me, "It's too bad I can't stay home and run the household and let you run the business." Don was in fact better equipped at keeping house than I was because of my disability. I knew Don was not trying to be mean, but it hurt.
^i^ Amazing met him at 16 married him at 29. . . . 5 more till kids came. And still you play the roll model games at 38 years old after 4 of the 5 and so this hectic time would go longer and so you still haven't learned the lessons meant for you.
I began to compare my reality to my teenage daydreams of marriage and babies. My dream did not include a crippling disease like arthritis. I began to feel worthless and a burden to my husband, and eventually to my children. God in His ever-faithful way began to tell me how much He loved me and how capable He is of taking care of me. God told me He has a plan for my life. I had heard about God's plan for my life before, but I thought it was just some general plan of salvation. I didn't realize He has a plan unique to me. It takes into account my attributes, my gifts, my intelligence, my beauty, my strength, and my talent--all that I would ever need to carry out His perfect will.
^i^ Still victim and how many years ministering this way???????
God whispered, "Nancy, no one else can fulfill My plan for you but you, no matter how much younger, smarter, prettier, healthier, or whatever you could be. This is My plan for your life, and you alone can do it perfectly." All I have to do is chose moment by moment to do God's plan and not my own. So much for idealism!
^i^ Even your victim set is taken into account by God when He explained you youthy looks, but remember your more youthful days were in a lot of misery.
4. Pain can become an idol.
Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary says, "[A]n idol is something we ourselves make into a god. ... It can be anything that stands between us and God or something we substitute for God. In addition to material objects such as houses, land, and cars, idols can be people, popular heroes or those whom we love." If we allow the pain of dealing with homosexuality to come between God's voice and our ears then we are making that pain our idol. If we become so bitter at anyone for the pain they have caused us then we are making that bitterness our idol too.
^i^ If you know about idols then why can't you know the real historic names of the gods represented by real Bible idols. The Church loves to say gay is an abomination. The word means especially to idols. NOT your idols of lust for possessions and pain, but in Lev 18 and 20 the god Molech a fertility god that had sodomites. (temple prostitutes). So you like to play games and call things idols. It can be and obsession, but 90% plus of the time it bares no real problem that can't be dealt with thru life's travels. Sometimes you are supposed to be country, sometimes sports fanatic, sometimes a computer nut, sometimes whiny about aches and pains. All these are part of life and makes you grow into to who you are meant to be. For now you're in an ex-gay ministry, later God will use these years to show gay is not sin. And you will find much more love and happiness than you ever thought possible.
5. Bitterness is one of Satan's favorite tools.
Bitterness can make the most wonderful wife and mother into a foolish woman who can and will tear down her own house. "The wise woman builds her house but the foolish tears it down with her own hand." (Proverbs 14:1) When I married Don I thought I knew what I was getting into. I thought God was going to use me to show Don how wrong all his assumptions about life and love had been. After a short period of adjustment, I reasoned, everything would be great between us.
Didn't God put us together so we could live the "perfect life" as Christians and thereby prove to the world how great God is and how much the worldly were missing by not getting in on the abundant and perfect blessings we were having? Wasn't it our obligation as Christians to be free from sin, free from financial problems, free from disease and all other worldly concerns, so that unbelievers would want to become Christians like us?
You can imagine how quickly that idea crashed and burned.
There were many times that I was bitter. I always thought that when things calmed down I would get over it: when we had children, when our finances were in order, when we had a bigger house or a bigger car. Somehow something was going to make it bearable and I would stop being bitter. Finally I had all those things but I was still bitter, so bitter that I could see my children suffering from it, so bitter that I didn't even care if they suffered or not! I finally became so miserable that I begged God to do anything to take the bitterness away. He did! He took all those material blessings away from me and made me trust Him alone.
I am no longer bitter. That is not to say I could never be bitter again, but I can truthfully tell you that if God told me I had to live my life over changing anything I wanted in it, I would not change a thing. I am content! Nothing is worth the risk of losing what I have found in Jesus now.
^i^ Every family has their problems, that is life. The age old question why won't God answer my prayers isn't limited to you with a bisexual husband. God won't answer questions and allows pain so you can grow. If he helped your every need when you wanted you would not be able to live eternality with God. There must be valleys. Valleys are not satan domain. It where God gets most of his work done on his saints. When they don't learn, its back to the valley, and its back to the valley if they do learn or otherwise you figure it out and learn it your way to get more mountain tops. The Church blames satan way to many times and satan loves the credit. If it was him we could stop most of it fairly quickly. Satan as you know is evil and plans to make man kill 3 billion in 42 months in very horrible ways and your worry about a little valley. Paul say he counts all the pain as incomparable with the glory to come. If you were not to receive any help at all from God and suffered so much endlessly you your hope is that pain has no comparison to the glory that is coming for you. God does help and he does it now, so the worst case won't happen. If you have a moment of pain, just think of those with greater pain than you will ever have. These people are a dime a dozen. Nancy you are blessed with tiny pain. What of those with real pain. Have you staved to death lately? Did you live with war dropping loved ones around you and your legs or worst blown off. Its easy to see that what we here think of as pain should never be misplaced with what is to come. The USA will have its day of these dreadful pains, how will you fair.?
6. Temperament and birth order help us discern why people do what they do.
God had already given me tools to help me overcome parts of my difficulties. These tools cannot be changed or lost, but they can be perverted by the enemy. From Tim LaHay's Spirit Controlled Temperament I learned what my husband's natural strengths were, and how those very strengths could be either perverted by sin or influenced by the Holy Spirit. Don's drives and expectations were in place before I knew him; they would always be part of his character. So I needed to help him to use them positively, and not to berate him about them. Knowing about different temperaments relieved me of a great many misconceptions about myself and about Don.
I learned to pray for Don's strengths and against his weaknesses. Don did not hate me; he was not trying to drive me nuts. He thought everyone acted as he did, just as I thought everyone did it my way. I learned to be more forgiving and compassionate toward him and more grateful to God.
^i^ Well I hope so, but it sure taken you long time to get anywhere, look you are going into your forties by this stage of your testimony.
7. God's character is good and He is in control.
I learned about His character through prayer and Bible study. My other huge desire in life besides being Don's wife was to be the mother of his children. I asked God for five children; I believed He would provide them. After four and a half years of marriage and doctors' skeptical looks when I asked them about it, I began to think maybe I had heard God wrong. I delighted in Him. Would He give me the desires of my heart? Maybe, I thought, I haven't delighted myself well enough in God. Either way I was childless.
One day as I contemplated the impending birth of a friend's child, I finally let go all my pent-up frustration and confusion and I cried out to God, "Why can't I have a child. What is so wrong with me that I can't be worthy of a child?" To my surprise instead of striking me dead for my whiny attitude, God answered my question. "If I said you could have a child without its being My will, would you?" Pause. I had to think about that a bit. Then, "No, Lord! I would never bring a child into this world knowing it was doomed from the start!"
From that point on I was freed up. Free to just trust that God was in control. I found a peace which I had not experienced before. In a couple of months I was pregnant. I was elated for about six weeks. Then I lost my baby. As I lay in bed dealing with the pain of having my own body reject that precious long-awaited baby, God spoke to me again.
"My child, have you come so far and learned so little about My character? I would never let you go through this without some very good reason? I would not dangle this child in front of you and then snatch it away at the last moment. That would be cruel. If your child asked you for bread, which one of you would offer a stone? I love you much more than you could love any child of your own. If I did not intend to fulfill your desire for a child I would not have allowed you to become pregnant at all."
I was immediately filled with a peace and a joy that I cannot describe. I instantly knew I would have a child. One year to the day of that miscarriage my first daughter, Katie Elizabeth, was born.
^i^ Great, but still "victim set" horrible to lose a baby, but to blame yourself (your body) has no merit. Though common enough. Yes, you are unique, but you got to draw the line. In today's world we know things and one thing is you can lose your babies and it not even close to your fault scientifically unless you horribly abused yourself. However, God does give and take for His reasons.
8. God is your true Husband.
Isaiah 54:5 says "Thy maker is thine husband." Many desires that teenaged girls have for husbands are not from God. The true desires that God gives us are ones that he wants to fulfill. No matter how much our husbands may have neglected us, God can fulfill them Himself. By "true desires" I mean our deep need to be loved and cherished and protected, and our need to be approved of and delighted in. God created all those needs within our hearts knowing that only He could ever fulfill them completely. He is our true Husband, and He wants us to depend on Him before and beyond anyone else. God will faithfully see that we do not lack in any way. If there are godly traits that you do not see in your husband, don't think that you will be unfulfilled. Look to the Lord. He is your all in all. He will see that they are fulfilled.
^i^ But according to ex-gay leaders if gays have these needs its addiction to lust or some other explanation than what you say everyone has need of. But you gave us forty years of an unfulfilled life. I never had to wait that long. Some things are still to come, but enough comes in time under any condition so you can move on. In your case many years of frustration came and gone before you had any real positive things to say then you still have not broken through to being set free on these issues.
Take the affirmation that God offers. Don't demand what you presumed you would get from your husband. For many years I depended on God for all my physical needs and provisions, as He taught me to. But I felt I was bereft of personal affirmation. I assumed that it was because Don was not romantically attracted to me. I also assumed that God wanted me to trust Him in that area and to wait for Him to perfect Don until Don could affirm me in that way.
^i^ We know he wasn't attracted to you, you hounded him for over two decades before he married you. . Everyone must take up his own cross, there is no short cuts. You must learn each day of your life as it comes. You must listen to what God is saying at the time even if its from someone you don't want to listen to.
One day I was listening to some music by Dennis Jernigan. He was singing a love song to God. At first I thought it weird that anyone would sing a song to God like to a lover. The song was not sexual but very tender and sensual. God began to speak to me about true sexuality. Many of us think of sexuality in terms of intercourse. I have come to believe that intercourse is a mere reflection of the extreme tenderness that God our Father desires to have between Himself and his children. It is that tenderness which is at the heart of our deepest desires. The physical act of sex was created by the Lord for the husband and wife and is exciting and even overwhelming at times, but it is the fulfillment of tenderness that makes it wonderful. Without the tenderness, it is not much more than anonymous sex. Coming from the background Don had, he could not easily understand the difference between love and sex. The difference is that love is tender, and the author of tenderness is God Himself. One of the big gaps in my own wholeness was to feel cherished and tenderly loved. Now I no longer had to wait for my husband to grow to perfection for that need to be fulfilled. I did desire for Don to fulfill that need. One day he did become all that I needed or desired in a husband. In the meantime, God already cherished and tenderly loved me, and that made a huge difference in my life.
^i^ If God taught you about sex tell me about the water bucket full of wholes. You had a surface lessen, try the Holy Spirit school. You can't apply for that school and you can't even beg him to enroll you. It's a very long period and you are shown thousands upon thousands of relationships of all kinds. The worst the most sexually disgusting, the most promiscuous as well as the most loving and lasting. You are practically force into getting to know people that are so foreign to yourself and what you desire in a relationship or think right. You see statistics that blows your mind away. I am talking about straight relationships as well as gay and all between. Have you got up close to a prostitute convention and heard them go into details on Bible sex in showing the hypocrisy of Church teaching. This doesn't mean automatically agree with everything. It means you have been taken to school and so can see that 90% of sexual condemnation is extremely stupid. It's only result is to promote confusion on baby Christians. Yes, sexual sin isn't right, but it is even more wrong to teach on it in stupidity. 62% of well tested (interviewed to validate genuineness) Christian singles have sex on their 1st dates. This means if you date someone that first date you will go to bed with them. Should you meet another on that first date you will go to bed with them. This is an unacceptable condition. So what is wrong with this picture? Is it these that are having sex on their first dates? Did Jesus lie? Or is the Church doing something wrong in teaching on sex and relationships? Nancy YOU have not been taught about relationships. You have only got your childhood dream wish which gave you decades of unhappiness with apparently small doses of happiness thrown in. Your use of the scriptures has a lot to be desired. And after all these years you have never ever told us much about Don. Does he write his own testimony? I would think he would be afraid to be very honest because he has such a "lord" in the house.
9. We are deceived by the enemy about who we are in Christ
. We don't know what we can do. We don't know what our job description is, and what the benefits of that job are. Psalm 68:19 says, "Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits" In Alice Painter's Bible study, "The Challenge of Being a Woman," she says, "The truest thing about you is what God says about you." Find out what that is. The Bible has more for you than just how to get saved. Find out what God thinks about you. Find out what kind of authority you have as God's child.
^i^ You won't accept what God says about me. Not only your Bible and LORD is my Bible and LORD and every thing you hear God says about you He says to me. I have a background that you or no one can undo. I am a Pentecostal. Do you hate them? Are they demon possessed? Is the Assemblies of God and church like them really wrong about the Holy Spirit? Well if you are in a denomination that does not believe in the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Assemblies of God church to see what that means) then you can't possibly understand God moving in this dimension. I can't count the times I have been called out. Calling out means God specifically told the speaker to call a specific individual up so a Word from the Lord can be given to him. It seemed like once a month for 15 years, I was called up no matter where I was. Could be visiting another church. On the Indian reservation, at a TBN rally, at a tent meeting, a pastor's home Bible study where I was invited even though they knew I was gay, on and on. The credentials of those that prophesied over me were very acceptable to large groups of Christians. They would not be flaky or questionable, but have proven their gift for years to the Church. They were straight and would ordinarily like yourself condemn gays as sin, but they did not know I was gay except for that pastors home Bible study which had around 20 pastors nearly all prophesied over me knowing I was gay. (now it's a little different because I do TV and am known as "Gays For Jesus" and so that is all they see, so God uses other kinds of neat ways to say about the same thing). 100% of the prophecies over me are telling publicly my love for God and His for me. Details of my calling are told publicly to me which meet the confirmation of what God has already shown or prepared me for. If you don't understand this operation of the Spirit then its meaningless to you, but the point is not. At times some of these people would cast demons out of other or rebuke in a proper Biblical manner. Since the was not a fly by night experience I had a very long time to observe all the way the Spirit moved in these bonified churches and ministries. I also spent a lot of time studying the move of the Spirit. God sent some wonderful teachers to root me in his Word with understanding which I did not fail to research for myself. I also operate in the Spirit of God. If you were to be honest and truthful and you knew about the operation of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) then you would have to be confused. You would have no choice. It contradicts the gay is sin doctrine. During this period my lover was nearly always at my side when I was called up front. You see you have to call these many men and women liars or false witnesses or full of demons. Well these men and women have names and they are people and they have testimony and witnesses of their lives. WHY for me did they get demon possessed to say good tidings about me. Why in this time frame where no future person can undermine wasn't there just one that would say I had a problem. If people had problems they were told often enough. What is there about me that inspires these people to call me out? That is just one small aspect of Jesus in my life, but that is very public. Why did Jesus give this foundation in public? Why did he establish me? Why now year by year bringing me reach further out across this country. Why did your testimony come my way. Is it so I can go to hell later, or maybe your words will change me? You have to answer a thousand questions to continue to say gay is sin. I boast of these facts in my life so you will have questions. Your only choice is turn a blind eye at what I am saying. That will not undo a thing of my past. I haven't much got into the many thing Jesus has done in my life. What am I an example, so when I fall "gay is sin" is lifted higher? That when truth comes to me I'll will preach your message that gay is sin? I was writing you yesterday and it was getting late so I went to bed, today I am even closer to Jesus and love him more, not because I am writing you, but because one more day with him is so good a thing. I appreciate more and more. My desire for him increases. I see darkly now, but what I see is his Glory just around the corner. I seek him he is my everything. He has so much for those that seek his face. Though we live to be a 100 each day is better. Tomorrow could be bad and my heart broke or some pain comes, but all is counter a knot because eye has not seen nor ear heard the things God has in store for us. In my Fathers House there are many mansions and Jesus is building one for me. We can't understand this word mansion it simply does not mean expensive luxury millionaires house. Streets of gold and all manner of fine jewelry does not mean gold and jewelry as we know it today. It just represents something very good beyond our capability of understanding.
Find out what kind of protection and blessing Father has in mind for you. The Bible says, "Resist the enemy and he will flee from you." You should not only resist, but rebuke him. Use the weapons that God has given you to fight Satan. If your husband can't resist the enemy, rebuke the enemy on his behalf and make him stay away from your house and your husband. Go on the defensive. As Renee Dallas--wife of author, counselor, and ex-gay Joe Dallas--says, be proactive. Don't just wait for your husband to change so you can get on with your life. Be a helper suitable for him and "lift up his arms." That's a Hebrew word picture from Genesis for helping a soldier to hold the sword when he is too tired to fight. If you are in God's will you won't be contentious or a nag. It will not benefit you to replace one sin with another one. You can pray and rebuke and resist without anyone but you and God knowing about it. You will see results.
^i^ You think a demon is behind every bush, that's why they don't leave so quickly. Look at your advice. You are in your forty at last count and have had little success at getting rid of demons, that's because 90% of them weren't there to begin with. You seem to love to give satan so much credit. If you really believe this then why don't you go to MCC or Dignity or Integrity or PFLAG or all the denominational gay groups and cast out demons. On occasion some Christians groups do go to parade marches to do a little like that, but most carry hate gay signs. Why does these parades grow? Why do the Christian gay churches grow, why does PFLAG grow? You can say why does ex-gay grows too, but that would be silly there simply are too many facts that shows the leaders fail and though Exodus boast of what is it 26% it narrows to 1% with in a few years after Exodus stops follow ups. Pentecostals straights really are bad considering this demon thing. They of all people believe they can cast them out, yet they run so fast from a face to face confrontation on the issue of gays though they often preach demons are very involved. Why is it. You are trying to tell your readers you are supposed to rebuke satan and demons, but why then doesn't LifeGuard have some sort of ministry to rebuke demons. I bet you can get people from the Christian gay churches to send someone, but if you can't invite me and let play cast the demons out. Lets see who the demons comes out of. Homophobes love to say when I tell them I speak in tongues that it is demon tongues. What does the Bible say about calling the Holy Spirit a demon? You can call Jesus and God a demon, but not the Holy Spirit. What sort of trouble is in store for those that say gays are not filled with the Spirit, but with demons?
In closing, I would like to tell you how to find help and what to expect from that help. All of the books I have mentioned are very good and will give you the knowledge you need to make progress. Read the Bible daily. It holds the complete source of comfort and wisdom for all circumstances. Don't expect change to occur overnight. Do not expect to get a "normal" husband just because you apply some teaching or receive some ministry for yourself. You were created to serve God and to bring Him glory by enduring and overcoming difficulties. You did not accidentally trip over this plan for your life; it was designed with you in mind. God knew every detail before you were born. You have the husband you do because God chose him for you. Don't try to remake what the Potter has done, instead remember that God's glory is more seen when we are visibly broken, but spiritually victorious.
^i^ Hmmm? Now you re-evaluate your life's mistakes as a source of wisdom to give others. Because you made a lot of huge mistakes doesn't mean most women are making these mistakes with their husbands. Some do and look at you a very long trip to find your way. If you let God choose your mate, it would have went much better. You contradict yourself saying God chose Don for you. YOU fought 12 years to get in bed with him. Most people take a few month to 2 years. Some even quicker. 50-60% percent had to try out a first marriage. If you think you can judge these first marriages as not letting God choose your mate then you are more blind that you are appearing. This is a big problem with many Christians and that is to ignore facts and statistics. God is in control, but not in accordance with man's thinking or ways. The Bible is right, but not according to someone's interpretations. Each person is suppose to amen the preacher, but go home and study to see what was said is true. Each person is responsible for his own walk and just accepting the status quo of a denomination is not necessarily the right interpretation.
When things go wrong in your marriage, when you get weary in well doing, when times get tough, grab hold of your First Mate, your Father, your Creator. Through all of this trial and tribulation to reach your own place of recovery and centeredness do not lose another important part. Keep your priorities straight. If the enemy cannot mess you up completely, he will at least try to get you to focus on one part of your life so strongly that he can have a free hand in the rest of it. This is why so many ministries start off well but get into trouble. They work so hard to gain a victory in one area that they lose site of the fact that the enemy is attacking in a new place.
^i^ A hint here that " so many ministries start off well" is in fact your ministry as well. Of course though your ministry is a big part of your life it was hardly ever mentioned. So the guess is LifeGuard hit very bad times once or twice, but the pieces were picked up and you were able to continue. It would be interesting to here about what hard times LifeGuard experienced. My ministry "The Stables Ministries" Never had bad times. I have walked or been carried by Jesus through valleys, but never was there any time the ministry was in jeopardy. Into my 13th year on TV never missing a week on the air. Never asked for a dime. Never felt the slightest sense that the ministry was failing, never ceased to have an effect of people whether from the 300,000 phone calls in the 1st 3 years or the mail, and now every time on-line swamped with people coming to me. My internet site gets a lots of hits and generates e-mail responses. All this pretty good for $0. 00 budget. Can you run LifeGuard on $0. 00? When things go wrong with my lover I get a hold of God. He shows me how to get him back line with pretty neat things. Easy to have problems hard to make up, but with God that make up happens even though you can't use the same ways very often. There you go with a demon behind every bush. Can't you take responsibility for your own short comings and not blame demons who love to take the credit. Don's problems mostly weren't problems. You made them problems, other areas just are what makes him him. Of course areas of improvement are in line for everyone, but many of the changes you want weren't necessary, because it was what makes Don Don. Now you've made a new person, but that was God's job. Just like the missionaries to the Americas came and told the Indians being naked was sin. God told Adam "who told you you were naked?" Many relationships one spouse will try to change the other. Nancy you spent decades trying to change Don into your image of a perfect husband. I don't think you got that yet.
This is especially important if you have children. Children are very vulnerable, and require lots of oversight when their father is overcoming homosexuality. Even though this sounds like a juggling act, God will handle all the details if you will let Him. Hebrews 13:5,6 (Amplified Version) reminds us,
Let your character or moral disposition be free from love of money--including greed, avarice, lust, and craving for earthly possessions--and be satisfied with your present circumstances and with what you have; for God Himself has said, "I will not in any way fail you nor give you up nor leave you without support. I will not, I will not, I will not in any degree leave you helpless, nor forsake nor let you down, relax My hold on you. Assuredly not!" So we take comfort and be encouraged and confidently and boldly say, The Lord is my Helper, I will not be seized with alarm--I will not fear or dread or be terrified. What can man do to me?
^i^ You have not been satisfied from day one and you are giving this advice? You were greedy for Don's attention, you lusted after him when he had little or no interests in you, you wanted things from him to show he cares for you, things like noticing you when you do something you think should demand his responses, you made no mention Don loved money, your moral values rested in pipe dreams. You were seized with alarm, in fear, and terrified because your pipe dream so often crushed. You find these little scriptures that fulfil a wish dream this was how you lived. But you did not live this way at all. You were in victim set from the time you met Don and in to your forties. This could be over all good if you learned from it. I saw nothing yet that revealed you learned things. Osmoses seems to be the way you express yourself. You seem to flow from one state to another with out a learning step. Its in retrospect that you oozed from state to state. You see I felt things weren't right with how the Church perceived gays, then I prayed, and not just a simply sweet sentence, but in my prayer closet for gut pouring out sessions till I got through or was worn out, then a flood of studying and info coming to me from many means, more prayer, and experiences and Bible study, sometimes taking years to find the details to bring the picture in to clarity. Other things comes quickly, something I am still pursuing with vigor. You never go to church listen to your pastor then go home and have the answer. It may help, but without you efforts the answer even if right is useless. I have what I call a shelf of things from God. Great ideas that would work. Theories based on God's word. Revelations waiting to be told to others. Things God have told me in my past before I was a Christian which and demand further validations. Some things that may simply never be told that God showed or told me. But each and everyone had their time and efforts put into them. I just won't look at that shelf and say I will take that one and go with it. But that God does something to make the choice clear by bringing significant or finalizing or rounding off information and witness through His Word and real life. It may not make sense to others, but it is not others it needs to make sense to. My calling is I just tell what God has shown me, if I can prove things great, but it is by faith we believe God, if we had proof it would no longer be by faith. Some things are by faith alone.
I have learned to differentiate my husband's spiritual state from my welfare. I can trust Don because I depend on the Lord to protect and provide for me and my children. Don has been relieved of a great deal of unnecessary pressure to perform by my actions. He has not taken this for granted, or as an excuse to be a nonentity in our relationship. Instead he has used it to become free and strong in the Lord himself. Even though Don and I are one, and we are a team when it comes to God's will for our lives, we are each God's individual child, and thereby each of us has a plan to follow that runs parallel to each other but is not necessarily conjoined. If Don has a time of darkness in his life, it doesn't mean that I have to be darkened as well. I, especially for the sake of our children, can and must go forward, in spite of any dark situations that Don faces. Don does the same in spite of my times of darkness.
^i^ In other words you are saying God finally got through to you that you can't change Don so let Don be Don. But now you can blame things to be for the sake of the children. Over all you are just not very good at adjusting to real life. Fantasy is still very much part of your life. Fairy tales can be sweet, but are just not real. Jesus is real and so is life. Jesus is as real as the 600 million gays you condemn.
One of my very first counselees asked me, "If you could only give one piece of advice what would it be?" This is it: Love your husband with all your heart, but put all your trust in Jesus.
^i^ How sweet, but who does it help? Nice saying, but that 'counselee" can't go home and love her husband (she must be having a great deal of hardship maintaining this love). And putting your trust in Jesus????? For 2000 years Christians trusted Jesus, but very large numbers watch their families killed in wars and accidents and diseases. They prayed long and hard with no hint of mercy and even much worse. To counsel a hurting person with fast one liners that are so mundane is to stick the knife of hopelessness deeper into that person. As true as your cute phrase is, it is not helpful to heal a hurting person. We trust Jesus OK, but we may die a horrible painful death and see our kids die in pain. Trust doesn't mean cure or help. Trust means what ever comes your hope lies in Jesus and the resurrection of the body at that DAY. Trust is not having to be at the White Thrown Judgement or the 2nd death. God gives and He takes away. Paul learned to be content in whatever case he was in. Yes, often Jesus helps and answer prayers to our liking, but to give out a phrase can lead to more pain and giving up on Jesus. My piece of advice would be more on the line:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (KJV)
2 Cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (KJV)
^i^ We will have sufferings and this does not make your husband or you wrong or right. Listen to David:
2 Sam 12:21-23
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. (KJV)
^i^ David earnestly prayed God to save his sick son to no avail, but as long as there is hope do what you can to get a hold of God, you don't know if God will heal your situation or not. Either way is GOOD, because it was God's choice to let David's son die or to heal him. He died and so our pains may continue. God's purpose is fulfilled by saying yes or no each is an answer. Sometimes people say to me, "Can I ask you a answer a question?" I joking answer, " Yes, but it may not be the answer you want.". Counseling is an important responsibility. Your answers are important. It can have far reaching consequences. Marriage is important. I have used the term "victim set" often when responding to ex-gay leaders testimonies. Apparently you do not know what it means. It is a condition where you have allowed yourself no options except to get deeper into your self pity. If you are in an abusive relationship you can't find a way to leave it let alone turn it around. Every choice you seem to have leads no where. You seem helplessly stuck with no way out. This can be extreme or more mild. You blame things as causes that aren't causes. Most importantly if healthy people were if you stead they would have many positive choices to make. They would not feel trapped. You were trapped for decades in circumstances that should have taken weeks or month to figure out or even less time. You pursued a dead end as though a goal sent you from God. You determined to make a war where there was no war and then determined to win the war. This all occurred in the fantasyland of your mind. Sure God will work all thing to the good that love him, but we seem to love to make a lot of work for him. You can maintain the fantasy you have and God won't forsake you. Jesus won't leave you. But real life won't go away either. Gay is not sin and your ministry stand for gay is sin. This means you must learn a lesson. God keeps the record and justice is His game plan. The time that is reserved:
Rom 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. (NIV)
Rev 8:5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake. (NIV)
^i^ There is a DAY that God is going to answer the prayers of those that have been persecuted by the Church. Rom 2 is talking about those that have judged others wrongly and Rev 8 is a specific time Jesus has long awaited. Jesus has a great deal of emotions on this throwing down to Earth of this censer. A study of the symbolism that your ordinary scholars and others that seem to understand what it means adds to just plain modern English simply put , Jesus has been hurting right along with the people that his people (God's people) has been hurting. I call then the innocent people persecuted by the Church for the last 2000 years. Gays fell completely into this class at the end of the 12th century. God's plan called for no big action till the Last Days to bring justice on these cases. Israel is in blindness:
John 19:37 and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced." (NIV)
^i^ In a moment Israel will know Jesus is their Messiah, in a similar way the Church will recognized they have hurt many innocent people by falsely accusing them of sins. You can begin now to find out the truth or wait. I tell you it will not be as fun to wait.
In heaven Don and I will both be made perfect. Meanwhile I will never chose another over him. As Christians, Don and I are part of the Bride of Christ (Revelation 21:17). That's why I can say, "My next husband will be perfect ... His name is Jesus."
Reprinted by permission:
6611 Berrywood Lane,
Georgetown, Texas 78628-9542
^i^ When you told me to try and poke holes in your testimony I had made a mistake and assumed you were ex-gay. You misled me in that :
Subj: Re: response to Stephen Black
Date: 97-10-12 14:55:51 EDT
John My testimony is online at the exodus site..and you are welcome to poke as many holes in it as you like...but it won't change a thing.. : ) God Love you John and HE alone can give you the truth you are seeking...Stop looking for answers in Lovers, friends and supposed enemies...go to the well of Living Water..and Live. Nancy
^i^ I sent ex-gay ministry e-mail and you who are not ex-gay wrote back without saying who you are. On the other hand you read plenty on me to get started. When I found your testimony it was not that of ex-gay. Stephen Black attests he is ex-gay. You jumped in with your straight testimony. The least you could have done was direct me to Don's testimony. I am studying ex-gays not straight people in the phase of my work. And just look at your e-mail. Full of assumptions. I have been a Christian since Jan. 74' baptized in the Holy Spirit. My roots are tapped into the Living Water. Why do you say stop looking for answers? The answers I look for are in God's Word. Your testimony shows God's Word is not the prime source for you. You lived only to reach your fantasies about marriage. It would have been refreshing to read how you searched God's Word to find out about this one you had the hots for since 16. Is gay sin? You never questions this the entire testimony. You never once in your life cared enough about 600 million people. You were extremely selfish and wanted only your needs to be met. Even at the end of your writing you had not reached your goals, but had resigned to accept the conditions in a greatly reduced ambition in love. Not one issue of Don's life was brought to bare. Only things you discussed was his lacking as a mate which has nothing to do with being gay. We got only enough out of this to see he was a bisexual. You never let us know anything about what you and he did to deal with the gay side of his bisexuality. You did in fact say you did not like to deal in that area in was very uncomfortable for you. This testimony was about you and your victim set personality which is still intact till this day. You maintain the facts about the ex-gay ministries in that there is no consideration of facts. There is no study regarding each verse used to condemn gays. If gay is sin then the verses used will assuredly stand the test. Yet, never is there a moment that ex-gay leaders deal with the study of each verse. There are just 13 so it is not a great impossible task. The foundation of ex-gay ministries is the assumption gay is sin. The fact about ex-gay leaders and yourself is your need a therapist, but instead you become lay therapist to try to help other people needing a therapist. MY life was not like any of these ex-gay leaders or like yours. While young we think in perhaps some pipe dreams, but we see real life quite early and easily adjust. You never adjusted, even now expect a miracle to begin your pipe dream. How you left your victim set life and began preaching in your testimony gives no comprehension of what did you do you gain the scripture knowledge was completely left out. You never went to Bible school. No sign of church or church taught lessons. You present no credibly for your final summary preaching. You went directly into a serious ministry with no experience with people or knowledge of the Word of God. Gays with your testimony are gay because they had a childhood like your according to their testimonies. So why aren't you gay? Is Don your substitute father? Ex-gay theory is consistent in that gay men did not have a father image and so they look for that in sex. So what we have to follow through is Don must be just like your idea of your father and in your sickness of a broken childhood you looked for your father and found him in Don. Nancy, your testimony does not show to women of gay husbands something to help them make it through their lives. Your testimony sounds like a straight marriage in all aspects with a comment to remind us your husband is coming out of being gay. Every characteristic you gave about Don is a characteristic that can not be distinguished by an orientation. It is a common enough characteristic in humans. Your point never came across to show gay is sin or gays can be delivered. Don or your self is a representative of sick ex-gay leaders, not of the gay community. I have not found ex-gay leaders that first were healthy and well adjusted as a gay person, which is the norm in the gay community. Just like in the straight community being well adjusted has nothing to do with Salvation, but also has nothing to do with condemning the entire gay community of 600 million. Because a few gays are so sick that they get saved as they are going to a homophobic pastor and sent to an ex-gay ministry is not an example that Jesus is saying gays can be delivered. There are plenty of gay churches. Tell many how many services in MCC have you attended? How many times did you visit PFLAG? How many times have you attended Dignity? How often did you visit the gay organizations that reaches out to persons with AIDS? How long did you stay with gays in their homes. The point being very little is done by ex-gay leaders to confirm the Bible condemns gays. Your testimony is out of place in regards to ex-gays. It's just like in passing by the way my husband is ex-gay. Which is of course false, he is bisexual. The point being very little is done by ex-gay leaders to confirm the Bible condemns gays. Your testimony is out of place in regards to ex-gays. It's just like in passing by the way my husband is ex-gay. Which is of course false, he is bisexual. Your testimony confirms only one thing the consistency of ex-gay testimonies. All had a miserable childhood, most gays have good or otherwise a normal childhood. I remember having a very good childhood and youth. My era was generally centered and connected by two popular radio stations which enhanced the culture of my high school days. Lack of interest in dating girls was a minor imposition. My military life was full of good memories. My 1st lover brought lots of joy and wonderful family life including 3 children. Getting Saved was the most wonderful experience and Jesus has always been so close to me. Divorce was routine in comparison to straight breakups. My changed life to Christ was not what he bargained for when we met. My early Christian walk was fill with Jesus(still is) and lots of association with straight Christians and pastors and prophets who had only good reports about me. I had 5 years of working in the care giving field that brought wonderful results even astounding results in comparison with other counselors attempting to help the same individuals. When I began active ministry it was blessed and still is. Impossible in my eyes to be on TV let alone preach once a week on my own program. Yet, after watching a woman preacher (who was not preaching concerning gays) who's message she clarified by using sin example of lesbians, why not gay men?) and this on a public access channel was too much for me a actual pretty shy person and not one to speak publicly at all. After praying I began calling and writing every TV media I could find. To my surprise one called back within a day and said come on down and take a 1 hour class for free then check out the equip. and produce a program which would air. This was 6 weeks after I had to come out to my Assemblies of God pastor and stand up to him somewhat over Bible truth which resulted in lots of prayer as to how can me a nothing and a nobody have business to stand up to God's anointed? God answer very quickly with re-read a chapter I have given you. Ever since my Salvation a chapter in the Bible always opened up to me in which I could never understand. It had to do with preaching against the shepherds. I only knew wonderful pastors and their messages were very well anointed and I got along very well with them. But on re-reading this chapter now God flooded me with meaning and revelation. There was not mistake, God had told me for 11 years he had called me to speak with and in authority to pastors and ministers and Christians. Six months later I found I could be on TV and 6 weeks after that I had my 1st TV program which continues till this day, into my 13th year. It seem quite a contrast to your testimony doesn't it. I had no speaking ability, I nearly blank out speaking to a few people. Even today I can't speak, but GOD takes that and you can't shut me up. I am always over time and need no preparation. At any second of the day or night I can do a hour or 30 minute program and have it ready to air in the length of the program and the few extra minutes to edit in credits. It takes less than ten minute to prepare the set when everything is neatly stored away in closets. Jesus is so good to me. Why? You can't handle it can you? You must assume I am barely scratching the surface to find something I don't have. Why is it that homophobes just don't get it. They can be shown facts and they reject them. I tell you about how good God is to me and the many blessing and miracles and you say I and desperately trying to find answers "...Stop looking for answers in Lovers, friends and supposed enemies". I did not need to look for answers prior to accepting Jesus. My quest, if it were, was enjoying history and mysteries of the past and science. The last care I had was what anyone else thought about me being gay. It was plain and simple "so what" what they thought. I know gay isn't wrong, its in plain sight. Christians were wrong there was simply no God. There was no issue. When God showed me Jesus was real and I accepted him because I loved truth, for a short time I checked out the verses they used to condemn gays as I really meant it when I got saved. Jesus hooked me good. But you see, Jesus was already with me during his leading me to himself. This same Jesus Christians accepted had told me many things from the Bible which I found as I read the Bible and was shocked seeing how Jesus brought me to himself with out the aid of others except getting to the alter where I actual prayed the sinners prayer. I go on into details how Jesus dealt with me before I knew it was him and the testing of the spirits to see what is of the Lord or satan. Soon after accepting him I bean what I call living in Christian book stores. Reading everything I could concerning gays. The original Hebrew and Greek was very convincing that the Bible was not talking about gays and Christian authors on the subject lied out right about gays. I was gay and out in the gay community and gays did not behave or live as these supposed. It was really easy to see the Bible does not condemn gays. I had no concern to tell the Church this. It was very good to read both sides of the story. There were 2 verses that needed time to be exposed to the truth and I sought that because I knew they did not condemn gays. I knew personally Jesus did not, but to confirm this knowing is not Christian you must use the blueprint of the Bible. God showed it all to me. Still though interesting I had no desire to preach to the Church on this issue. I believe when we got to Heaven God would show these otherwise wonderful Christians that gay is not sin. So because the Church didn't accept gays they did not need to know, just like parent did not need to know or the work place. The Church well secured the doctrine to fence out gays from public acceptance with their 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine. So, many years the Church saw me as just me with no tag that said I was gay. So the result was 11 full years of close interaction with many churches and ministries and all that goes along with that, including attending some of TBN's program host's meetings. You did not hear the results, but I did. I know how Christians responds to me when they don't see the gay tag. 24 years of secular work brought many Christians my way for work related reasons where even though work related they were free to discuss anything. Salesmen kind of bribing people to use their services by taking them to lunch kind of thing. We would only talk about Jesus and not work during these lunches. They would always treat me as the minister full of God and say so confiding their needs and asking for my advice and prayers. WOW what a miserable life I had huh? As I told you at a point in time God said I was to indeed tell his people what I have learned and seen. People never stop coming and treating me as above, but now because I am public with my face shown all over Seattle and vicinity it is hard to go to a church with out a long wait before the scoffers start in including the pastors. Remarkably some churches which would ordinarily condemn gay, because they just love the Lord and one such church because one of their own was led to listen to me and later visit with me then God told him to help get me a computer at a good price in support of my ministry had invited me there, they met to decide how to deal with me. They after much prayer and debate agreed to not assume anything about me and accept me letting God deal as He would with me. As I said earlier I was accepted in a group of 20 to 30 pastors' home Bible group. Everyone were pastors or head of ministries. They were all from Pentecostal based churches who otherwise would consider gay as sin. Because I led one of their sons to the Lord I was invited to their meetings. I attended for about a year. They all knew I was gay and never ever once said anything against gays and freely exercised their spirits gifts on me. (in Assemblies of God fashion in case you get in a demon frenzy you have to condemn AOG). I repeat these things to you and others to bring up over and over again the point if gay is sin WHY? You and your ex-gay leader buddies say it is not possible and yet look. I am not lying to you. Jesus has a package deal in these Last Days. It is in perfect order. Step by step the order of the Last Days takes place. The lesson of love must be taught to the Church. 700 years ago the Church amputated a member off its body. This member though the Church thought it uncomely it is the, excuse the forwardness, the as you say:
"Many of us think of sexuality in terms of intercourse. I have come to believe that intercourse is a mere reflection of the extreme tenderness that God our Father desires to have between Himself and his children. It is that tenderness which is at the heart of our deepest desires. The physical act of sex was created by the Lord for the husband and wife and is exciting and even overwhelming at times, but it is the fulfillment of tenderness that makes it wonderful. Without the tenderness, it is not much more than anonymous sex"
^i^ This the Church cut off and ever since the end of the 12th century and completed by the end of the 14th the Church had no means to develop this tenderness. You meant this idea as a very good thing an d not some dirty sexual notion, and so you must maintain that notion to understand my words on this issue concerning the Church. Because gays are banned this which God has bestowed abundant comeliness is missing.
1 Cor 12:21-23
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (KJV)
^i^ Denomination have many difficulties between each other some fight each other. Like groups will join allegiances for common goals, but will fight others. We all have much to say about those Christians or these in judgement and so forth. We come to the North American Continent to bring the natives to Christ and look we destroy their non-religious cultures. Christian history is filled with terror. Black history is full of Christian persecution. Though much good even perhaps over all good has come, it is way too unacceptable the harm done to innocent people. Asians often say their ancestors have no hope, they never heard of Jesus. But the Message of the Church is a hopeless one. 3 billion people can't accept Christ as preached. This does not mean Jesus can't save them because they choose other gods, it is because the Church's message has no hope for them. This is not the Bible story for that is filled with hope for all mankind. It is the Church story that says give up all that you are and give up your history and change your customs to fit Church doctrines. 600 million are gay and Church doctrine excludes them from salvation unless they abstain or changed and be straight. Whether you accept it or not that missing ingredient the missing member was the key, the balance that smoothes over the rough edges between denominations. It easy to see. MCC is a mixture of many denominations. They meet together. Pentecostals with Methodist and Catholics. Mormons (God forbid) and Lutherans. All kinds of Christian churches, but despite some major differences they worship the Living God Father of Jesus Christ, God of the Bible without infringing or condemning any denomination. Only slight edges are what ever background the pastor is from you'd that twist to the messages. I have attended MCCs over all for 7 years. There are other gay churches that are more specific oriented to background, but even so without bias to divisions. MCC had a tremendous effect on mainline denominations as they are seeking acceptance into their national grouping. It was amazing because of the warmth these gay Christians brought to the reviewal process and other meeting business. They were allowed to give communion to all denomination under this group. Never before had married couples gotten to receive communion together at the alter, but as the custom of MCC they invited straight married couples along with gay couples to receive communion together instead of the normal straight custom of each person individually. Gays are this cementing idea you presented about sex. Soon at the throwing down of the censer gays will begin operating in full force of their membership in Jesus' Body. God grafted the gay members back on in 1967 and 68' and they are getting closed to healed and ready to go to work. You fail to look at the whole story. You see sick gays coming to ex-gay ministries. . You don't see God's work with healthy gays. Most gays also don't see God's work or full purpose yet either for them. In town meetings the anti-gay side looks hateful and unloving though they may state the love the person and hate the sin. They always appear to disapprove and have little support but statements that "its just not natural" or "God hates it" or " man was made for woman" or some other non-fact. The whole program from them is negative and hopeless, but from the pro-gay side it is the opposite. What love means is expressed. Unconditional love. Because some fringe groups that aren't Christian or some other kinds of supports comes in that the anti-gay groups deems unclean does not diminish the unconditional love that comes from the pro-gay side. It just happens to be the anti-gay side is some homophobic Christian group and claims the title "The Church". Generally it the homophobic Christians that come against gays. Politicians that fight against gays when pressed always says it because GOD says its sin and not the freedom to politically be against gays as they present on the surface, it is always connected to the Bible and homophobic Christians. The pro-side can be quite a mixture as there are lots of groups of people that think nothing wrong with gays and that their experience with the Church is bad or a variety of reasons. Many pro-side our very much Christians. What ever the background of the pro-side it always extends unconditional love while the anti-gay side extends conditional love. These are hints that God is teaching his gay children to go to their persecutors with a forgiving heart. When you go deeper you can see gays just are not going to treat their Christian persecutors as they have treated them. It that DAY gay Christians will have a job and that is to restore fallen Christian to GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ. This DAY will come as quite a shock though God has spoken very clearly to his people in many way they just have not listened and so did not expect it to happen this way. The thief will come in an steal all that you have because you just did not listen to God. What's more the WATER will be stopped. The Church has shallow roots and hardly any bothered to sink the into Jesus where the Living Water is. We have had enough water all these last 2000 years that surface roots got water through all the rain, former and latter, and the mist and drizzle in between. These shallow roots feel no different than deep roots that are in the Living water. The Holy Spirit connect you to the source so you can have time to grow your roots into the Living Water Jesus Christ. With no real need and no heeding, the Church is not ready for the WATER to be shut off, but shut off it will be. The great deception starts at the same time, though we all know about the coming antichrist we haven't a clue about actually what is going to happen or much about anything concerning that. We have been taught either God will take care of us and were very willing to die in our faith if necessary. But, this antichrist's kingdom is much more deceptive. It will very well orchestrate a process of events that will convince many Saints that Jesus is here now and setting up his kingdom. The counterfeit so clever it will make you at least believe Jesus lied to you or convince you he is Jesus' Father or higher up the latter than Jesus. What I am saying no matter what you think now it will be dramatically different world of events a head. Jesus will seem unreachable and his presence gone. Yet you will see those that seem to still have it and or you will feel something like it coming from this man that say he is GOD. Depending on what you do with these radically different experiences you will not know what to do, because you may know enough to retain doubt about this man, but still this spiritual feeling he gives you confuses you as it feels the same a Jesus' feeling to you, but its different and the same, but seems like something is missing. You will be confused. Your lovely children will be at risk because you are not prepared and have not prepared them for this. Every piece of this has already been told you if you read the Bible, but the "enemy" as a singular goal group dating to the FLOOD passing down its secrets until today always working for the one world ruler, many times nearly achieving it, but by sometimes as few as on person are stopped. They with this singular goal never consider time as an obstacle and would start again patiently. Now they have succeeded. The last 80 years they infiltrated the Church in the USA especially Sunday schools. They ever so slightly and subtly changed doctrine and customs to a point that when antichrist takes power the Church will support him and help make laws to his end. We see some of these misled moral laws being instituted today. Lots is about to happen while you play ex-gay ministry games. The mile square concentration type camps are being built and there were a number of them as far back as the sixties. These camps are not like the ones the Japanese were put in, these are designed to get you to renounce Jesus. There is so much facts on antichrist's kingdom it should scare you to death even with Jesus in your hearts. Though with children pray it doesn't happen in winter. WHY? How bad is it, I though we were taught Jesus won't let this happen? Ah, but he told us it will happen, GOD told us over and over again. We white washed it and now think we won't see much more than the beginnings of sorrows. Jesus loves you and also has prepared a way out or else you'd lose your Salvation. Restoration big time is coming, but at a price. A lesson is to be learned first, no magic. . . .
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