Gays For Jesus
I personally met with Doug Houck of Metonia Ministry in Seattle. It took many years to meet him and then I had to tell him that rumors abound that he was seen in the act and I wanted him to have the benefit of the doubt and speak for himself.
Are ex-gays for real?
A reply to an ex-gay
PLEASE NOTE MY COMMENTS START WITH " * "
In a message dated 96-12-11 03:13:38 EST, you write:
* Thanks for you info that you CC to me. God is so great! Reading your material you sent me and your suggestion for reading some ex-gay ministries books was very remarkable. A large number of them I know about and have read many of those books.
I speak from first hand experience with a number of your suggested ex-gay ministries. You even listed Metonia in Washington. You no doubt just copied material without much investigations. I on the other hand have investigated from several angels. I personally met with Doug Houck of Metonia in Seattle. It took many years to meet him and then I had to tell him that rumors abound that he was seen in the act and I wanted him to have the benefit of the doubt and speak for himself. Which was true on my part, but with the motive to meet with him. We did meet 2 or 3 times. He had founded Metonia 5 years before. He told me that the bases of his ministry is, quote "gays are looking for their father image and so we teach them to find there father image, but don't have sex with him". That struck me as very weird. What a farce. I have personally talked with and seen thousands of gays and read many books and studied the historical record. Gays just are not "looking for there father". Sick ones may be, but few gays are sick. And just look into therapy for straights, many are looking for mother or father image, this is not a conditions of gays , but a condition of people.
He promised to get me a copy of his proof "GREEK" dictionary that shows gay is sin based on 1 Cor 6:9. It took a year for him to get it to me and that was when I saw him at ch. 4 "Town Meeting" so I asked him again. I got it within a couple of days. It was a modern translation though a good and popular dictionary. It said a sodomite is a homosexual. And this is just not so. A true dictionary would be in the early dictionaries before the English homosexual was invented. That way you can see the original meaning. There are many facts about 1 Cor 6:9 which can't allow a modern dictionary to simply replace a Greek word with another and different English word. Back to Doug. He did his testimony once on TV which I happened (no such thing, God directed me to) watch. He stated point blank he was delivered totally in 1985, after many years of struggling. His testimony was not relating to gays at all. He had a pathetic story of not knowing much about himself and his pastor put him into classes because he said he thought he felt some gay feelings. This is a common story with no chance to look into the many resources available.
Later, on one of my weekly TV programs a viewer called me and said he went to the same church as Doug Houck. (as I was talking about his testimony and ministry during that program) I asked what church. He told me "The Church of the Advanced People". He told me only, if you believed as they and belonged to their church, that you would go to heaven in the rapture. Finally I got him to tell me it was the "Reformed Church". I called Doug and asked him about his pastor's church and the story I got. He would not deny it he just said, ask his pastor. Years later I read in a gay newspaper the Doug was caught in the act. He said "delivered in 85" but slipped up in 92'. Metonia was taken over by straights (common among ex-gay ministries) and Doug was sent on a symbatical to work through his fall back into gay acts. I can tell you many facts like these about other ex-gay ministries.
So people as you read MPictures email to DWelch, just remember you are reading surface information. These groups are bound together through Exodus, kind of a magazine link to ex-gay ministries. The Founder and president, for nearly 2 decades, is now preaching across this land that he was wrong that gay is not sin and he is very sorry for all the pain and suicides he was responsible for through Exodus' programs. As always I put an * in front of my comments. If I insert Bible it is pretty clear as most of you would never use actual Bible back up to me.
Dear DWelch7323 Although I know that in responding I am inviting a barrage of e-mails to me, I will do so nonetheless.
The points brought up by Jesus4Gays are many and difficult to respond to in a single e-mail. But in response to the topic of being Christian and gay, I would like to offer my own experience. I am a Christian and have dealt with my attraction toward the same sex as long as I can remember. In that sense, I am gay. But I decided eight years ago that I didn't think God wanted me to be gay. This didn't come through a study in the Bible, I wasn't even a Christian at the time. I just had a feeling that it wasn't right. But still, I couldn't fight the feelings. I tried to suppress them, but they had a way of coming out. Every night I prayed to God that he would change my feelings, but He didn't.
* Prayed to God, but you weren't a Christian????? Whether Christian or not the 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine has saturated everyone's thought to be against gays. Most gays still live in the closet because of a 700 year old doctrine that has taught us all to reject gays without cause. Just watch in chat how the especially out spoken against gays will soon turn very sexual terms, which just isn't necessary for discussing the issue, but it is a display of sexual confusion of the serious homophobe. Christian just aren't suppose to act that way ever. Earlier I told you about Doug Houck and his long term struggles and after telling a TV audience he was delivered completely several years later prove God isn't asking the gay person to change and be straight. But the Church is! MPicture says he believed his rotten feeling about being was without reading the Bible. Strange aren't we suppose to use the Bible to test the spirits? Don't you know anything about human bodies? We are full of emotions, we 2nd guess everything, we feel many things. We are very much conditioned by everything and TV swamps us with straight sex. The Church heaped tons of weights on every last person on Earth including land that Buddha is the main religion. Go to the Jewish chat room. They do not use the TORAH to prove gay sin. They hate Christians coming in because they bash them so much, even so, in the Jewish anti-gay talk is almost 100% based on Church antigay Doctrine. Feeling guilty does not mean you are being convicted by the Holy Ghost! People that are victims of many different kinds of pains feel guilty every move they make. Its a conditioned guilt reflect. Gay people are disowned, kicked out of apartments and church, rejected by friends and forced into a double life. Many get married for decades before they finally accept themselves, but there is a family there now. Holy Spirit conviction always leads to a way out. You know deliverance, WELL RECORDED AND LONG LASTING! You accept Jesus as Savior because you realize you are a sinner, but Jesus was the way out because he died in your place. What a feeling that is. No matter how bad or how good you have been you are set free, refreshed can take on the world, where there was no hope, hope abounds. Yet you know you were a hopeless bound for hell sinner that can't pay any price to be set free. but free you are now. Look at ex-gay ministries, I have studied them personally at length for a few year and have studied the work of others with deep rooted credential for such a task. I got complete materials from Pentecostal, Assemblies of God backed L.I.F.E. which I met in person and prayed for the straight leader and AOG pastor in tongues. Which changed a violent pastor towards me a gay person to a kind respectful man in less than 30 seconds. This story has a great many details so in short this group used behavior modification techniques developed in the secular world. All of these many groups (over 35) have horrid success rates when you look long term. Clients almost every one charges going therapist rates, last from 1 to 2 years before they find out Jesus isn't asking them to change and be straight. Those lasting longer have a very hard struggle that never ends. YOU MUST SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN THIS PROGRAM OR FAIL. That is about what is boils down to. Several leaders have called me to tell me they used to be president or hold some high office in these ministries and now they are freed and a much better Christian being who they really are. While every statistic always show such a hard struggle for those that still think they will get delivered some day. These ex-gay ministries have gone through changes over the decades, from saying you must change to try to abstain and when you can't just repent and go on from there. The other side of the PICTURE is "homophobes" getting delivered. Now you see the way deliverance is meant to be. Though its tough for a parent that find their child to be gay. They do search not wanting to lose their child to satan as the Church preaches. Many find gays is not sin and have written books on their research. A large organization gets lots of statistic about this because they consist of parents and friends of gays. Its called PFLAG. Because MPicture didn't look into the many resources he now send out unresearched material with no background research. There is also totally no admission to a fact of life "bisexually" this group is thrown into the gay group with out so much as a thought of any differences. These people can choose what they want sexually and either way is just find. I see them and talked with them and read about them, but have no understanding how they can be equally comfortable having a relationship with any sex. Well this simple just not fit gay behavior. Ex-gay studies show this group going into straight relationships, while the true gays just abstain. Sorry people. The closest info that the Bible tells us about abstaining is it is doctrines of devils. BOW DON'T BE SO CRUEL AS TO ASSUME I AM SAYING HAVE ANY KIND OF SEX ANY KIND OF WAY. My entire emphasis is on loving caring relationships that otherwise is what getting married really means. The Bible even says to a marriage that if you stop for pray and fasting. Don't do it too long or satan will tempt you. Yet one common feature of ex-gay ministries is to say you must never have sex again if its not with the opposite sex.
My freshman year of college, I accepted Jesus as my Lord. But my feelings didn't change. The Christians around me didn't seem to have any answers other than to say homosexuality was wrong. But that was like telling me that speaking English was wrong. I didn't have a choice! That was my language!
One day around Christmas, a friend told me that she heard a talk from someone who went through counseling to deal with his homosexuality. Counseling? It seemed a little weird.
* There are 600 million gays most including Christian gays don't just flat out get involved with therapist let alone ex-gay ministries. People that have severe problems dealing with life may listen to possible sources of help. Most studies shows a clear upper 90% plus drop out rate, One Assemblies of God straight woman researched this for 25 years and of one church there were 100 ex-gays she was helping getting delivered. This bothered who because what she told these men didn't go right in her heart and the Word of God compared to the ministries teachings (AOG) She finally left that ministry and went her way, but God called her back as to her own ministry towards gay in a positive way showing gays is not sin. She knew all 100 men personally and where they lived or how to find them, this was one year later. She did find them all and all were back into their gay orientation, most as a better Christian having dealt with, finding gay was not sin, and accepted themselves. Quest's founder and president of 13 years caught in the act and charged with 13 counts of sex with clients. Funny thing this was a Seventh Day Adventist back ministry. Most churches we all belong to think they are a cult, but they send their gays to them??????????? The story goes on and on if you just take time to open yours eyes.
I transferred to a new school and after a few months of trying to deal with my bottled-up feelings unsuccessfully, I contacted a counseling center that I knew helped people struggling with homosexual desires. It was one of the toughest decisions I ever made. The reason it was so tough is that it went against ALL MY FEELINGS. I had gotten used to those desires, they seemed almost comforting. Hey, I liked men! And now I was going to talk to someone about my feelings? As if they're wrong?
* here inlays Rom 1:26-27.... If you go against what you are supposed to be that is a sin. The Greek for natural and nature explains with the context that these were adults that have really enjoyed straight sex many times and just loved it, suddenly chose gay sex. MPicture was going against his nature trying to choose straight sex. But these 2 Greek word (WATCH) will never leave him, because its the LAW of nature if you will. He is gay and days, years, decades later that "instinct"(Greek) will haunt him with a vengeance. How unfortunate for the wife he may marry trying to prove to himself he is now straight. Testimony after testimony says 20, 30, 40 years down the road with wife and children many times the family comes to a crisis when one parent says they are gay and must be who they are.
I realized during the next year of counseling that my homosexuality was not the problem at all. The problems were far deeper. They had to do with my relationships with my parents, my own sense of masculinity, my relationships with others and most importantly my relationship with God. If you kill the roots of a tree, it's only natural that the leaves will yellow, die and fall off. The same is true of homosexuality. If my homosexual feelings were in fact leaves of my tree, symptoms of deeper issues in my mind and heart, then it's only logical that they would go away as I pulled out those roots.
* Typical old school of thought that mommy made me gay. Why don't you read the newest official report from Therapist association or what ever its called. Most of you have it I sent it to you. The last time they issue it they said gay was not a disease (1974 I think) Oh, that's a secular report you say, then why to you accept secular treatment to become straight. MPicture said he learned it was mommy theory. This has been thoroughly proven wrong. Too many gays comes from otherwise regular old families with no old traditional belief that parent did it. Also, straight world over have suffered the exact same up bring that is suppose to make you gay. You can't prove a point unless you cover you data base. Today the data base is huge. You have 600 million gays to compare with. I grew up in a family and I know what I went through and how I discovered I was gay in spite of tons of media and peer and tradition and customs, and etc. to be straight. Who would choose to be gay. I had traditional ideas about getting married I know first hand where there is no place any where to bring to any attention to being gay and yet I am and I know the process of discovering it. I also was privileged to study therapist for around 3 years specifically on sexual matters. I also have many friends over the years that tell me the same story as mine collaborating the many studies that are done on this very issue. Sometimes parent are a problem, but that a gay it doesn't make. Used to be gays were thought to be sick because they were seeing therapists. then one brave woman (straight) went against the norms and began to study healthy gays because she happened to have some friends that were gay and quite healthy mentally with their lives and successful in their careers which didn't fit what was taught6 everywhere about gays. This led to the 1974 decision that gay wasn't a disease. I tell you this because there is info and facts that are available, but never preached about unless it is saying see how wicked the world is getting accepting more and more the gays. Funny, that is what happened about blacks, that Church wasn't to good to them but through hard work and law and gov't etc. the Church wouldn't consider the things it use to take for granted concerning blacks. Historically this has been the way of the Church. God always moved Usually with Christians, but outside the main stream to bring right and respect to groups that the Church otherwise rejected in many ways.
I learned that I neither was born with homosexual feelings or chose them. Just like the English language. Were you born with it or did you choose it? Well, neither. You learned it as a way of being able to survive in your world. My homosexual feelings were much the same. They were a learned way of feeling as a way of dealing with my life.
* Using your English example. WE ARE INDEED BORN WITH THE INSTINCT TO SPEAK A LANGUAGE. We just learn the one that is around us. In the same way you are born straight or gay. Sexual orientation you pick up lots of material while growing but you will be what you were born with in spite of surroundings. Your guts tell you hence the Greek word in Rom ch1 explain to you. You will be what you are to start with, you just have to figure that out while everyone is tell you that you are straight and will marry the opposite sex when you grow up. MPicture tell us all who taught you. Did your mom teach you or your dad? Was it your cousins or friends at school. The truth was this your secret that you had all by yourself? Who taught you???? Did you gut instinct teach you? If you felt this way you are gay and no matter how much you fight it it won't leave you. You have to deal with it, because you are running from who you are as one friend told me he was doing.
I journeyed during those years. I look back now and read about my feelings and thoughts and am amazed by where God has taken me. It was not easy. I remember at one point sharing how difficult it was for me to face these issues and my counselor said "I hope you're spending time to enjoy the ride. God is going to use this journey to share with you His grace in ways that you never imagined." He did and still does. I'm not going to share what specifically led to my change -- it is multifaceted and different for each person. If you're really interested in knowing what some of the roots might be, see the book list at the end of this.
* I am very familiar with the requirements to keep a journal in therapy. This way the counselor can have someway to maintain complete control. I bet that if I had a chance to interview you MPicture I'd come up with many things in this counseling period that the therapist took you through. You may believe today that God was moving and you are right, but not in the way you suspect. I bet the people you surrounded your self with only had anti-gay beliefs. I bet you never took any serious time to do your own independent research. I'd love to get the material from your counselors. As for the books you are suggesting I have read some of them myself because I want to see both sides of the story. You tell me and everyone here that only look at anti-gay literature. How can anyone know the as the name of one magazine puts it "the Other side of the Story" There is the other side of the story with highly educated professors and others with extremely creditable credentials that have researched this issue in depth. Today there are at least 3 libraries in the USA that have 1 - 3 million books dealing with gays in each of the libraries. Public libraries have both sides of the story. Those books you suggest some of them have just about no real research at all in them. I haven't seen them deal with the fertility gods or the history of various verses. In general they simple assume gay is sin then proceed from there. They use old outdated psychological studies that have long been proven wrong. They fail to compare facts in real life. Under the assumption of sin they use all manner of verses to paint a horrid PICTURE of gays. They never check out the 600 million gays which most are quite healthy and lively well adjusted and beneficial to society. They don't use Greek and Hebrew, and the historical record of the Church is never considered. It is an insult to anyone's intelligence to read such material that only purpose is to maintain the anti-gay doctrine sending millions to hell with not so much as a once of love. You all have seen the Christians and yourself behavior towards me. A few greet me, then all hell breaks loose as you all (most of you, not all) open your comments to me with anti-gay rhetoric. Then you throw every verse you know at me (which is very few, you only have 12 to choose from Jude makes 13). Some of you turn sexual and begin to detail sex acts and organs. You should here the hundreds of thousands of phone calls (literally) I have received. People describing that they are Christian say they will kill me, beat me up, and go into a tirade of sexual slang and I am being gentle on them. Note: Many calls were very Christian and very supportive and most were straight as my ministry in to straights for the most part. If gay was sin then why do otherwise good Christians appear to be possessed by a demon and their behavior becomes evil? Why do pastors faces turn red as a beet in anger and his body prepares to beat someone just because they gay. I can give you many examples and they come from all denominations. In these mad fits they never consider GOD or Jesus. They never consider their church has an alter, they never consider the Blood of Christ. Why does it have to be a yelling match. The facts are simple. Read the Word, study the facts. I do nothing less than explain to you that there are facts. Jesus is real, so why are you so afraid of real facts that are different than what you have been told. Lincoln was murder by one man were taught if you are as old as I am, but now the facts are there was a real conspiracy behind it all. Even more dramatic is the Illuminati was behind it. Can the Church believe lies for long periods of time. Yes, who know that man that tacked a 95 point thesis on the Church door. The Church hated him and thought it heresy. Now we say this man was right on all counts and the Church was wrong. Many Christians for centuries didn't have the Bible, but they had books that they used as Bibles. You can read them in the library. The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eve. As Christians we are taught if its not in the Bible it ain't GOD. Paul wrote tons of stuff not in the Bible, but I bet you'd love to get your hands on some of his other writing HUH? You can get lots of understanding about God and Jesus with out lessening the Bible at all as that still is the ultimate test. Many Christians have given many message direct from God's heart and are good for study in the Word says that. This does not mean Christians can't be terribly wrong on some issues.
I know many men and women who have had similar experiences and lead lives free of their homosexual desires. For some people, it is not difficult. For others, it is excruciatingly so.
* There is that old many word.... Facts not a head count. You can go to an ex-gay ministry and count a number of clients ( mind you clients, mostly all paying regular rates). The only lasting facts that come from it is the printed testimony of the client at the time. Years later that is still being passed around. It funny isn't? you say see read this, proof God delivers gays. While you are reading that testimony the one who wrote is sitting on his sofa with his lover cuddling with him watching TV. Those that are bisexual may have indeed married the opposite sex and its working out find, but so what, they love it either way, so what did you prove, that bisexual can live with the opposite sex? Guess what. The OLD Rom's GREEK for nature and natural still is effect. 50 to 60% of marriages in up in divorce. Being Christian does not lessen thin %. So if this bisexual gets an otherwise normal divorce what do you think will happen? They still are bisexual, maybe this next time the gay side will win through. You aren't proving gay is sin because you know someone that has changed, because you don't know the end of it. We do know when people quit other evil sin by decades of follow up. I use to drink as part of a fun weekend. I got saved haven't drank a drop since. Many things changed at that time. Gay is not a sin and that can't change. You give me anyone and quality time to discuss this with them about if they changed or not and I tell you their testimony will be flawed. Mind you they aren't doing this to be false as most are very genuine. Like Mpicture, he is very sincere, but sincerely wrong.
I know what I'm advocating here is extremely politically incorrect and counter-cultural. Oh well. Jesus never seemed to care about those things so I'm not sure why I should. Our brothers and sisters who want to explore healing of their homosexual feelings have the opportunity to experience God's love and grace in an incredible unique way. But the journey is tough and their aren't many cheering Christians on the way.
* On the contrary as a Christian you are main stream believing gay is sin and that one can get delivered of it. Now the facts happen to be God has been working on the side of gays for a long time, just like he helped that blacks from Christian persecution, and I was recently reminded of how Christian treat the disabled. Normally I wouldn't know much about that or be interested, but a friend helps the disabled often and I heard an extremely disabled preach once. I would have never thought them capable of a full life with Jesus and that they could minister so well in preaching. Then on-line I was told by a disabled how much they are in other words put downs by Christians. EXPLORE?????? Why not explore the other side of the story. Its a remarkable story. Now, in voting's around the country it is right around 50/50 on how people stand on gay issues. Hawaii just made legal gay marriage, which is on hold till the supreme court here's it. Who would have believed it just a short time ago. And TBN favorite lawyer "A Call to Action" who theme use to be and may still be "legislate the Gospel For Christ". they were fighting this matter a full force. I heard them on the radio and TV. There founder giving a play by play report even in the plane to the court of how the Church must fight this law. I did a search in Netscape using just the word "sodomite" and several files came up that I have sent many of you. It gives lots of info in a well rounded grouping.
If you are truly serious about this subject, please see the following book list:
Coming Out of Homosexuality by InterVarsity Press
this is a good one. Concise and to the point.
The Facts on Homosexuality by John Ankerberg & John Weldon
* I have recorded John A. while he preached against gays. The man is quite homophobic and an insult to truth. He is already a radical and part of a group that may be leading the Church ( I am being to kind) that is leading the Church to the shock of their lives about the Last days. I haven't looked into enough but I have watched John A. many time in the past.
for those of you who don't feel like reading an entire book, this is more of a pamphlet.
The Broken Image, The Healing of the Homosexual; Leanne Payne
Pursuing Sexual Wholeness; Andrew Comiskey
Overcoming Homosexuality; Ed Hurst & Dave Jacson
On the Origins and Treatment of Homosexuality; Gerard van den Aardweg
Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic; Elizabeth Moberly
Homosexual Partnerships; John Stott, InterVarsity Press
* I have seen many of these kind of shorts, some in cartoons (funny book style) They are pretty disgusting. Facts just are on their minds. All the myths are kept alive on how evil gays are. The best way to know gays is turn next to you and ask yourself is this person horribly evil. You can do this little test in church at work and even at home. I bet most of the time that person will be fairly decent. If you think gay sex is sick, then do this test. When you see the one you love, your spouse or fiancée or just a boy or girl friend. Examine how you feel inside when you are with this person. When you kiss or touch or hold hands and walk down the street. How do you feel when you look at this person? How do you feel when that person is sleeping next to you? When you get mad and argue with that person and when you make up. When you go shopping and every thing you do together, how does it feel? When they die how does it feel, when you met for the first time how did it fell? When you moved in together what was that like. All these thing that you know so well is how gay people feel together. How does it feel to break up, or divorce? In every way you have sex how does it feel with that person. Gays feel the same way. Some would say what about babies. Lots of gays have babies for lots of reasons. My first lover of 10 years had 3 kids. We had them for many years as the mother didn't provide a good home. They were 2 girls and a boy. Did I miss something you had? My brother thought once I was missing something, then realized I am not, I had everything you have. I had bad and good times. What's neat is, in spite of many(most)of you think God hates gays or at least when they have sex, God made the other person so perfectly matched. I still am amazed. Gays can meet others gays that are matches for them. No need to try to figure out anything. Continued below.....
See someone you like, and if they have a mutual like for you and you get together every time all those little things are built into the other person. God created the Gay person in spite of the hatred of that idea by so many. Maybe it doesn't work out, but the qualities were there. I here straights always so confused at who decides what, well no has to because each has built in characteristics that balance the relationship. Just like in the straight world you like certain things in another and you usually get it every time although other things may never let it work out. Although I hear straight men tell me that put a sack over the woman's head then who care who watches they'd do it right there on the spot. Fortunately I don't judge all straights by the words of lots of them. So, reading these material won't do justice to you or anyone if you don't also read material on the other side of the story.
To get started Read :
John Boswell's Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality
Tom Horner's Johnthan Loved David, homosexuality in Bible times
Rev. Sylvia Pennington's But Lord They're Gay
Rev. Sylvia Pennington's Good News for Modern Gays
Rev. Sylvia Pennington's Ex-gay ministries (exact name I am not sure)
Also read a major gay newspaper. To read Seattle Gay News search the web for it. You can see what going on around the world.
There are many books. There are studies on gays that have been in long term relationships. You mostly don't hear much about them. Most gays settle down just like straights do when they get married. Now many are speaking up to show gays stay together just like straights.
I have personally interviewed Sylvia several times and had her as guest on my TV program.
A powerful word of advice a friend gave to me during that time is "trust God above your feelings." Isn't that the God we serve? One who wants us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Make an effort to pray for your brothers and sisters struggling with homosexuality. They need your prayers and especially need your compassion and understanding.
* Yes trusting God is great, but few straights do on the issue. I remember once ( actual many times) trusting on some what seemed heavy verses to me at the time that the Church said condemns gays. I knew gay was not sin and that many of the other verses are easily proven not to condemn gays, but the Lev. ones I was not satisfied with many explanation out of the gay community and its ministers. They have a few different ideas about it, but didn't completely get it away from being sin at least for Levites. In my heart and spirit God Spirit was saying absolutely gay is not sin period, that God would not separate even a group (Levites) to be banned from being gay. Never would God say to a group just because you are a Levite you can't have sex if you are gay, but if you are straight go for it. This idea which seem to make since to them made no since to me. Well, I trusted God that He would show me that absolutely this verse does not condemn gays, the other verse was Rom 1. Now for at least 15 years I have seen enough information and facts from many sources, and the original languages, history, etc. that there can be no way its means gay is sin. I trusted God. I also trusted God. I told God I knew it was not possible ever to get the whole Church to see what I have learned, but that's ok, I know when we all get to heaven they will see there mistake. God later told me no one will get to heaven until the Church wakes up to their horrid treatment towards gays and they know gays is not sin. I trusted God, six month later I had my own TV weekly program. Me a no body has been on TV for 12 years now. For a while in four cities and for a long time in 2. I have seen across this nation others speaking out. It amazes me sometimes that others are saying the same things as though they heard it from me, but that's not possible so God showed them too. As you can see my ministry now reach into the internet for at least a year now. I am on sometimes every night and yet similar response every Christian, Jewish, Catholic chat room I go to. I can't possibly keep up with answering email like I am doing here. So I am trusting God to take me to the next step. PRAYERS??? How many of you pray GOD's will? Do you tell God his will? So you pray God Deliver gays? How many believe God answer prayers? Then why isn't He doing something about gays? I have had hundreds of thousands pray for me over 12 years to get demons, satan, or the homosexual spirit out of me. In every kind of manner. Some say they continue praying. Why is the gays issues seem to be getting better for gays? How come when I pray with my arms around a pastor and an ex-gay leader that God immediately answers my prayer in front of everyone. Probably 50 at the time. Why when I say "Jesus I call on Your Name" before I finish He says right back in a specific greeting and say I am here. Why have I had so many prayers answered directly relating to me and my lover? Why have I had financial prayers answered ( though I and far from much money). Why when I prayed 2 minutes before a front tire blew out when something made me feel I need to pray fast I pray Jesus watch over this vehicle. It blew in serious traffic, but I got to the side with out a hitch. Why when I prayed a million prayers they were answered, Why when I asked for healing 3 times for something major I was instantly healed with no one around except Jesus and me. Why did so many straight men and women of God call me out to pray and give a Prophetic utterance in English in the sight of all the congregations and it always was very up lifting and God saying his great love for me and he has called me and what order of calling it was. The details all true and many are still to come. Are these all false Prophets? If they prophesizes to a straight Christian its true but to gay person its false. Is there some test they would have failed? Its not just one or two its a large number in many different setting and places. Some well know on TV, some in camp meeting, on Indian reservations. What test do you need, what test do I need? These that I am telling is not for boasting but to help you question your conditioned responses that gay is sin. If it were WHY WHY WHY WHY a million times why? Can you go beyond your previous understanding and tell me why GOD is so good to a gay person? Why has he shown me gay is not sin, why has he brought me to you to go against every thing you ever was taught about gays. I don't come to in some sort of pretense I come to ready to give account of my faith in Jesus Christ. Are you going to reject truth again and again and again. The Lord is awaiting your answers. Time is almost out. The shaking is about to start. God is going to change your minds. A large number of you will change it away from God. You are not ready. listen to the new prophets that will soon begin their ministries. Some may already be speaking. They are sent by God and will be rejected by so many Christian as so many Christian fall for the sweet first part of the message from anti-Christ. Then suddenly the war against true believers will go into full force. But watch, its so coning that everyone thinks you are like a devil worshipper. Main stream Christianity will say "Anti-Christ" is God. Will you change your mind on how Jesus said he'd come back and accept this man who already is being courted by world leaders today? Do you know the Illuminati has planned out and is doing every thing to divide people. Look today everything is 50/50. Election often are neck and neck. Racial strife. And importantly a skillfully worked out scheme to divide the CHURCH against itself. Sunday schools have been long infiltrated with subtle false teachings slightly presenting the Word offset enough to eventually accept anti-Christ's entry. Anti-Christ is going to heal millions at once while the world watches him on TV. He will make it feel like God inside you with technology that already exists. In the fifties they found that human brain waves are in the range of the cell phones we know today. The cell phone towers that are popping up every ain't just for transmitting phone calls. Since the sixties there have been square mile sized plots of land set up to heard masses into like concentration camps. These camps are different that the Japanese ones that we built in W.W.II, these camps are designed that you give your allegiance to anti-Christ. Christians I am talking to you. You will be here. They will hurt you too. Finally, after a program to try to get you to denounce Jesus they will chop you head off. The Bible clearly says we will go trough part of the Tribulation. Here are some verses that you need to reconsider.
* This one is the favorite. Believe and get Raptured and it is taught by most to mean "MISS ALL THE TRIB"
1Thes 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (KJV)
* And another used to confirm we will get spiritual bodies at this time.
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)
* We are told also that Jesus' first job when he meets us in the air is to give us our "REWARDS".
Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. (NIV)
* We are taught the time is before the TRIB.
II Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (KJV)
* However, there is a distinct trumpet to be blown and some try to invent a magic 8th trumpet that blows before the 7 trumpets, this just is not possible. Three major things happen at the 7th trumpet. The REWARDS are given by Jesus to the SAINTS, the TEMPLE is OPENED, we are not going to have a 3 year picnic out side the Temple somewhere. Its say that is reserved for others not the Saints. Finally, the MYSTERY of GOD is accomplished.
Rev 11:18-19 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (KJV)
Rev 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." (NIV)
* You should all know the basics of the TRIB. exactly 7 years. This is divided up. There is a middle time. Most try to make it an exact mid point at 42 months into the TRIB. However this is not BIBLE.
Dan 12:7-12 7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." 8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, "My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?" 9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. 11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. (NIV)
*Remember these periods! 1260 days, 1335 days, 1290 days, I know the various teachings for the last days, but remember God isn't slack on what He said He was going to do and He didn't just make idle threats as it were of what He'd do if the Church fails to obey what He said. The 2 witnesses has 1260 days exactly. You can set your calendar by it if you know the first day of their ministry. I think you will know, but may not accept it till much later or not at all. You absolutely must start at the beginning of the 7 year period for these 2 witnesses. satan has 1290 days for his anti-Christ as acknowledged world leader. This absolutely must start from the last day backwards, which means it will laps over into the 2 witnesses ministry. He must make war with them and kill them on the 1260th day of their ministry. They are the last that should die that should die. Once these 2 have died then the Rapture can happen. The Church has 1335 days which absolutely must start at the first day of the Trib. This mean there are 75 days left over after the 2 witnesses are killed. So, the Church has 105 days of getting its act together. It get so bad the God says he will cut short the time. The mark will be enforced and Christians will find it difficult to survive to the point that God would Rapture them. During this 75 days it won't be as bad as you think. Anti-Christ is re-grouping after everyone has seen the 2 witnesses rise and the earthquake was a mess. Anti-Christ initiates full enforcement of the mark in the timely manner that towards the end of the 75 days Christians really need the Rapture to take place. It will be cut to the wire as usual. God always get the most out of what He wants done. The Christians will have either put on their wedding gowns or won't by this time. There is still the rest of the Trib and the 1st bowl is about to be poured out. It will take 7 bowls to reach the last Christians. That right! Most of you thought the TRIB was for unbelievers. Its not! Unbelievers will be taken care of, but that not why there is a TRIB. The TRIB is to get Christians, old and new, to get ready for eternity with Christ. Some will not get spirit bodies yet, but will have gotten ready enough to go into the next phase called the Millenium. Many of these will fail after a 1000 years seeing Christ ruling before their very eyes.
My diatribe was not meant to be a Biblical explanation of homosexuality, I believe the above books do an adequate job at defending my position.
* While Mpicture wants you to find what he thinks prove gay is sin and one can change and be straight your very eternity is in how you respond to these days. Are you going to join in the which hunt thinking you are obeying God and condemn everything that moves. Or are you going to take responsibility for the precious life God has given you, which is your own life. You must persevere and hold fast and stand fast in faith till the end, its is real easy, but you make it so difficult by forgetting your main responsibility in Christ. God so loved you! You are precious. But if you insist on responsibility for others by finding their faults and accusing them often instead of telling them your own testimony. Nothing wrong with teaching the Bible the best you can, but Jesus told you are a witness. A witness is someone who saw it happen. Reading about other things is teaching and you can be wrong. You can't be wrong when you tell other what happened to you, how you felt. Its called a personal relationship with Jesus. If you point the Law then you had better have the backup up to teach it correctly. Just saying its in the Bible is deadly. But backing it up with the research and study from all sides and presenting them with a perspective that you are doing the best you can and ready and willing to hear and corrections in the same manner of seeking the truth. From most of you I get verse and chapter quoted to me, but never your research into why you believe it is they way you are meaning. Its indeed the Word of God, but WHO ARE YOU???? The next person knows you from nobody and when you condemn to hell that is a real good testimony. People outside the Church hear something that is not Jesus the Christ. Jesus is able to save and yet so many can't even come close to him, because those that preach limit Christ by changing Christ into another Christ unable to save them. That is why there is about to be a great revival, and most of the Church won't be much a part of it unless they heed that message themselves so they can administer the needed teaching without condemnation.
Cheers and God bless.
If you would like to contact a counseling center, please call one of the following numbers (look for your area code):
Alabama - 205-942-0769
Alaska - 907-333-4673
Arkansas - 501-565-1084
California - 916-722-0206, 310-572-0140, 310-835-3858, 714-744-3326, 916-969-3929, 805-735-8143, 415-454-0960, 209-264-6125, 510-785-0349
Colorado - 303-770-4648, 303-322-2027
Connecticut - 203-248-5274
Florida - 407-629-5770, 305-680-3538
Georgia - 404-636-5924
Illinois - Nehemiah Ministries, PO Box 773, Urbana, IL 61801-0773 (sorry, no phone number)
Iowa - 515-277-2361
Kansas - 316-267-8779, 913-345-0559
Kentucky - 606-277-4941
Maryland - 301-661-0284, 703-661-HOPE, 301-882-6312 (for deaf)
Massachusetts - 617-445-1787, 617-266-3633
Michigan - 616-942-2063, 313-730-8111
Minnesota - 612-754-0420, 612-827-1419
Missouri - 417-866-2361
Nebraska - 402-421-1111
New Jersey - 201-694-2938
New York - 212-370-0475 (ask for Keith), 914-692-2848
North Carolina - 919-877-5649, 704-963-7772, 704-536-6705, 919-791-6179, 919-846-8742, 919-852-6134, 704-331-1720
Ohio - 513-433-0332, 513-861-0011
Oklahoma - 405-672-3733, 918-744-0437
Oregon - 503-235-6364
Pennsylvania - 215-435-8411, 717-361-8414, 717-766-7904, 215-985-4031
Tennessee - 615-254-8342
Texas - 713-465-7045, 512-496-2880
Virginia - 804-358-8150, 804-490-5777
Washington - 206-783-3500 * This is here in Seattle and the founder's name is Doug Houck of whom I discussed at the beginning.
Canada - 416-921-6557
Overseas Information: True Freedom trust, PO Box 3, Upton, Wirral, Merseyside, England L49 6NY 051-653-0773 From USA: 011-44-51-653-0773
For S. Pacific: Liberty, 15 Eagle Terrace, Torwood, Queensland 4066, Australia (07) 371-4705
* Those of you that do take time to check out this list from Mpicture please also call the PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) in those cities as well. They are mostly likely in most major cities and many smaller ones., Need to know where email me and I will try to get that info where you. Also Call MCC ( Metropolitan Community Church ( mixture), they are everywhere. Dignity ( Catholics), Evangelicals Concern (evangelicals), Integrity (Epistipals), and there are 7th day, Lutherans, Mormons, Pentecostals, and just about covers all the Churches that call themselves Christians. ( Then there are those from just about all religions and atheist too. Jewish faith as well. Then there are thousands of groups that cover every king of groups that straights like to form too. Most will help you if you ask seeking info in a decent manner. Remember gays are taking care of you and your loved ones, statistics show if gays stopped working in the healthcare field it would collapse. In every facet of life gays are a benefit to society and they always have been. Its the historical record. They again will be there for you in the last days helping you the persecutor of gays and they will have open arms with great love for you.
The Stables Ministries Home of Gays For Jesus TV Programs
Voice: 206-338-4297(gays) text: 425-321-5987 correspondence: firstname.lastname@example.org