Gays For Jesus
You just can't handle someone telling you that you are dead wrong about gays can you? It is so important to know the gay person's walk (testimony) to have valid comparison to your statements to condemn gays.
Comments in reply
From Ed Rutherford
Gay Bashing(part 3 of 3)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:17:03 +0000
Subject: Re: In 3rd Reply to Ed Rutherford
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:21:40 +0100 "Ed Rutherford" <EdR@SoCA.com> writes:
It is obvious, that you have some pretty big pain over the issues we have broached in our messages to one another. My E-mail to you was not ugly or confrontational but simply establishing a common ground on which we could discuss the biblical issues in which you address on your web site.
^i^ Try re-reading. I stated that I would respond to you according to that of the general Church and my experience personally with hundreds of thousands. I am sorry you can't read. I am also sorry you can't seem to see the difference in attacking a position and ones personal walk. Tell me why is it that so many homophobes always must assume pain in a gay's life? I deal with the facts which you avoid. Tell me how many in your congregation are going thru pain at this time? Does this mean straight is sin. You now appear not wanting to discuss anything except your conclusion that gay is sin. Everyone I write to that responses homophobicly (which you appear not to comprehend the meaning of) my response is not on a very one to one basis for your comments are common place among homophobes so I address you as a person that has little information concerning the facts about gays and Christ. I am sorry that you can't handle a little fact. I tell you of my long experience dealing with the Church on this subject and when I share it with you you assume such short term individual issue. I tell you of many experiences with AOG pastors, negative and positive and you assume I am in pain? I know that this pain word you express means that you assume gay is sin therefore I am feel conviction. I had hoped you a better person than this first paragraph to me indicates.
You asked, why I didn't ask about your "faith" in my first E-mail..
You clearly state your position on your web page. It is not my
place to question what you feel in relationship to God. My
questions are about your positions on scriptures that state
"homosexuality" is not acceptable in God's eyes. Those are the
primary issues.. both in relationship to your page, your ministry and
your faith in God.
^i^ When you say gay is sin to a gay person you say it with the background of the 700 year old anti-gay Church doctrine which being said in content means gays will go to hell unless they change a be straight. You just can't handle someone telling you that you are dead wrong about gays can you? It is so important to know the gay person's walk (testimony) to have valid comparison to your statements to condemn gays. You can't state Bible fact without including Bible descriptions and the comparison real life people. You conditionally state gay is sin automatically. You are conditioned to do so anything else would get you condemned by headquarters. You still appear not to be able to answer why is Jesus so close to me and why so many AOG pastors and laymen's personal experience with me convinces them that God is with me? Why also that operation in the HOLY SPIRIT by these AOG people over me always presents testimony to God's call and details on my ministry? You have some muddying to do to invalidate the past. You so carelessly throw out valuable fact showing actual fulfillment of Jesus' promises. You arbitrarily say the Bible says. Yes, what the Bible says is true, but your interpretation is wrong. The issues can't be separated because they compliment each other in showing it is not gays being talked about in the Bible.
John, you, yourself, say that the scriptures show God's displeasure
over the "male prostitutes" that served the temple.. The
differentiation between the two terms are truly minor.
^i^ This has got to be the dumbest explanation to prove gay sin, aren't you the least bit embarrassed that you can't see the difference? I suppose if ( I said this already, but needs to be repeated to deaf ears) if I were to go to a street where straight prostitutes were selling their bodies that I would see absolute proof that the straight orientation is sin because one is male and one is female committing the act. Sodomite is a fertility cult temple prostitute. How you can say that because temple prostitutes are male and most of their clients are straight that means gay is sin is really so blind sighted. Note: I know why the Church can't see that gay is not sin and don't expect you to see something that is kept hidden from you. God's plan includes a significant time schedule for revelation to the Church. Too bad you don't believe God reveals his plans to gays huh? Maybe you would listen when God sends someone to you. You think it a joke don't you? I am speaking boldly purposely trying to get at your gourd so you can finally see I love you and have a message you should listen to. Try to think thru an issue. Maybe in this case you are the student. Please don't think I am your student though I can learn much from you. The fact whether you reject what I say or not I am the person sent not you. You are suppose to hear God. You were taught and happily listen to your guest speakers and go to get fed at times yourself, but when God sends someone to you that has a message that you can't accept what does the Word say about you? Check me out I already told you. I am not in a cult I am a 23 AOG man baptized in the HOLY SPIRIT with many sign following. I am not making these things up. I bold speak not to brag but to get through your stubborn head that hey, God has a word for you listen up. Do you really think you have knowledge of details you need for the last days? You maintain AOG last days doctrine and you will perish. Think I am crazy? Why not ask yourself why does he say that, nope you'd rather be-little me whom you don't know. Had you known me you'd would be confused about your faith because I am here to wake you up to real facts not the story you associate with your claims. Don't try to think I am say the Church is wrong, but it is seriously wrong on the most important things that will cause them to lose faith. Do you see the picture of the Church planted in front of my eyes? Tell me what is it like to have a vision from God? Do you have one? I am not talking about a goal idea that you'd love to fulfill one day I am talking about an actual picture sent and left in front of you eyes the only instructions is tell my people. Go ahead an think I am a nut, go ahead and think you are personal enough that I am writing to you alone. I am writing to thousands or more. Only you can make it personal by inviting me to your church so you can get to know the one you think is a nut concerning the Word. Sow me your wisdom concerning gays and God's Word. Let me talk to your congregation. It is you in denial on this subject. Funny, you put gas in your car and it runs, you turn a facet on to get water, you click on a calculator you add things up, you switch on the TV and it comes on and all the facts around you that you accept as it real and it works. Its the truth if you push your light switch up that your light will come on, but if a gay person tells you truth about gays you say NO the Bible say gays are going to hell. You are stuck on prostitution to condemn gays is this your expertise? I have never committed prostitution. Most gays never commit prostitution, sacred or not. I went over Rom 1 showing that the people described were straight adults the entire context of 18-32 has to deal with straight adults and what happened after they made gods to worship. 600 million gays and I know you can't find one that is described in Rom. ch one So if you want to discuss the Word please act like at least that you went to college to get your pastorate degree.
The idea you postulate that changes in definition occurred 200 years
ago is illogical. Think about it for a moment.. It has been taught
that homosexuality was sin since the times of Moses. The basic law
of Israel never taught that "homosexuality" as being acceptable to
God and we have historical records that date back nearly 1000 years
before Christ. Since the Hebrews that interpreted these Hebrew
words were much closer to the historical and cultural meaning of the
Hebrew words why would you doubt them now.. 3000 years later.
^i^ see you never heard a word I said did you? Why don't you research the 1850 clergy conference and see if one of the matters the dealt with was the masturbation question of 1 Cor. 6:9 Moses????????????????????
Deut 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. (KJV)
6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe'); from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.
^i^ What's Moses question?
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (KJV)
8441 tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of 8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol: KJV-- abominable (custom, thing), abomination.
802 'ishshah (ish-shaw'); feminine of 376 or 582; irregular plural, nashiym (naw-sheem'); a woman (used in the same wide sense as 582): KJV-- [adulter] ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Often unexpressed in English.
^i^ You can try all you want to make this mean gay is sin, but the woman was not the wife of the man and has no indication that this is anything other than a sexually immoral straight woman described. Bible study on itself also brings up continued evidence this woman was not compared to a faithful wife. [adulter] ess and Often "unexpressed in English" are important as well to describe the woman. Was she a lady of the evening? a hooker? promiscuous? or a wife? Who decides? YOU? What is the chapter referring too? Acceptable sex? Yes, if a gay man committed adultery against his lover it can apply, but because its an abomination its and act of idolatry, not imagined but to MOLECH. You can't undue the Word and add symbolism to a exact act being described to cover you homophobia. Why do we have a direct connection to other gods (Molech here)
Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. (KJV)
Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. (KJV)
^i^ Time is taken to say don't do as:
Lev 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. (KJV)
^i^ Lev. is very much into fertility cults in these 2 chapters. You can't for your own desires translate fertility god to ordinary gay orientation and its accompanying behaviors such as finding a lover to lover cherish and live the rest of ones life with. You have got to get real because Jesus is real. The 1st recorded time that 1 Cor 6:9 was used was around 300 AD. You can't undue the development of the anti-gay Church doctrine which in changed nations to make laws against gays within 100 years after. You can't make history vanish about the detail involved in that change and what happened in the Church before that time. It was rare to condemn gays. You can't change the translation that put the word homosexual in the Bible for the first time around 1950. You based you material on a predisposed structure that condemns gays then predate it backwards applying sodomites as gays. Sorry, the Bible is fact and the original in tact to research by anyone, it is no longer the domain of the headquarters. If you could only wake up to what you are doing instead of telling gays to wake up. So quick to judge. The Church is the one that has been condemning gays for so long not GOD or the Bible. Information is available to everyone so no longer is the Bible translation dependent on the interpretation of those that lived in a time not so long ago that information about gays were confined to mentally sick wards. Finally some brave straights that had gay friends that was in the mental health field decided to research the issue because her friends were very normal, she found that most gays are normal and the views were terribly wrong which told you gay is a mental disease. Have you done any research into the gay community at all? It didn't happen over night. When I came out it was still a completely taboo subject and all most knew were what Jimmy Swaggart taught. Funny thing, I told Paul Crouch in a letter that he would see a famous mister cry and beg forgiveness on national TV. Soon afterwards there was Jimmy tears flowing. I also told Paul he would some more and Jim Bakker had his tears too. Lucky guess huh? You know Jimmy said a pastor took him down the worst section of town where guys would walk down the street holding hands saying how sick it was, he also preach gays sought out straights to seduce into being gay and that is how they reproduce. Do you believe him or do you think mommy made Johnny gay? Metonia ex-gay ministry believes daddy wasn't there for Johnny so Johnny is looking for daddy. Is this what you believe, by the way this Seattle ex-gay leader belongs to the church of the advance people and only members will be saved. (Reformed church of Lynnwood) Most Reform churches aren't this way at all. Another member of that church told me this, its not a quote from the pastor, the ex-gay minister Doug Houck did not deny when I ask him. You here still haven't answered why so many AOG pastors revert to evil towards gays? I got several interesting stories of many in Seattle. If you want to use history to condemn gays at least get you info right. I guess you think I am stupid. What motive do you have to research this info, you already conclude gay to be sin. Why do I have motive to research. HMMM... I am gay and the Church say gay is sin and they say gays seduce straights, lie number one, 1000 lies about gays later one can figure it out the Church don't know what its talking about concerning gays, they don't know who gays are and associate lies with gays. They falsely accused Jesus as well. Are you going to tell me the Church does not falsely accuse gays. I got first hand knowledge do you? I can read Rom. ch one 18-32 and can see that that does not describe me or any gays I know. Then to read the original Greek meaning confirms its not talking about gays. It is useless to try to convince you, you have made up your mind but for the sake of the many that will hear because of your e-mail I will rattle on and on trying to touch that heart of yours to finally open up to LOVE and recognize your gay brothers and sisters.
Can you find one of the early Church fathers that taught that
homosexuality was not a sin. We have their sermons from the first
century until now. Again, weren't they much closer historically and
culturally to original meaning of the Greek words.
Yes here is list of nanes and articles written in the first 14 centuries
^i^ you have your interpretation of their sermons. Paul's Greek word for example wasn't used till 300AD and Paul had a choice of 9 Greek words that meant gays in a way that tells you its talking about gay people. Don't forget I wasn't born yesterday. I lived in Christian book stored for a long time meaning I have read the anti-gay authors as well. Have you read many gay authors or straight authors that says that same thing, there are many. Why do you think you have special skills for researching truth? Is the HOLY SPIRIT in you different than the one in them? If so how do you arrive at the difference? You say weren't they much closer ah, yes they were, but it the same attitude climate of interpretation against gays that goes into understanding those long ago authors. Tell me then what about the gay Catholic priest literature around the 12th century. Have you read their material. Have you read the material around the world including Israel concerning Eunuch's? You know where it says that if you had your microphone in your hand and went out to interview someone on the street where maybe even you could see Jesus teaching down the street and you asked who are eunuchs? They would not right away say they were born without a hmmmm or they got hmm cut off or they just don't have sex or for God sake they cut off their hmm. Nope first they would tell you that oh those eunuchs are all gay or most are gay. You can get some very specific documentation on this too. I just hated to accept this theory I heard from other that just some gays here and there kept popping up with God told them they were like eunuchs (not meaning abstain but that its like a class of people) The more I dug in to study the material came up in history that this was often thought of by straights as meaning the gays. You hate that idea to don't you, well there is a lot more you will hate before you come to realize what I tell you is "gay is not sin" is a truth from GOD statement. There are 2 love stories in the Bible which you won't accept even with the facts screaming at you. Concerning small facts about eunuchs they were called upon to run the households often especial rulers harems, not because they did not have a hmmm, because not having a hmm and straight still makes you a threat to the harem, but gays would not have a interest in the harem for sexual pleasures. The Red City had many eunuchs and the King often played sexually with them. I am not discussing the multi-sexual partners aspect, but the connection of a non-othergods relationship to eunuch that indicated gays. Many people hated eunuchs too. What does Jesus say?
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (KJV)
^i^ Please now tell me you are not one of the "all men" above. Even Jesus urges you to grasp what he is saying here even though he knows most will not accept it. I have heard the escape goat explanation, but if those were true then Jesus lied for he said it can't be rec'd, but I guess you know easily what Jesus is saying huh? After all you are a Pastor. Tell me your Greek does it mean what it appears to mean or is there a meaning Jesus gives to a few.
Unfortunately, you can find educated people that will give you all
kinds of definitions of various Greek and Hebrew words. That really
^i^ yeah, I know, only your meaning is correct. One day I was pretty frustrated after reading a Bible dictionary of a famous Church scholar. You would know him, Right this moment I can't remember his name, he defined sodomite as homosexual out right with no hint of other meaning. I sort of stormed out my frustrating having read such a lie from such a well accept Bible dictionary, but before I could scream at God God opened my ears and I heard an audible deep burly voice says right after I said to God this is so incorrect and a lie, before I got the last word out came this voice " I KNOW, I AM SORRY FOR THAT." I could no longer continue to explain how wrong that definition because the voice so clear and strong. It was in the form as though that man made an apology to me himself through GOD. You can argue it wasn't from God, but of course you weren't there and you believe gays is sin so God wouldn't support gays. Remember your Greek there are at least 9 better words. Please don't think Greek and Hebrew scholars somehow are expert on a condition that most the Church considers sin. I had written to some well used TBN scholars who replied write to Kenneth Coopland for what it means. That person said Coopland would know better than he. I also spend time in the Jewish chat rooms and have asked the question, they just start using the NT testament and quote verses to condemn gays, though I have met lots of wonderful Jewish people that don't condemn gays, even helped someone to not commit suicide there. I have called up sources on the internet and read professors results on the daily use of ancient Hebrew concern the words in the Bible the Church uses to condemn gays. The Strong's is a well accepted AOG resource which is on my computer. If you want to show me your Hebrew and Greek use you computer's Bible program or type it from you books. I will show you why you have not gotten the correct meaning from it. AOG straight woman researching the gay issues for 25 years writing a number of books show 30 versions that give almost word for word meaning on verse 9 but when it come to the infamous "gay" word all 30 are confused as how to interpret it. Funny, guess I am stupid, you seem to think so, Is she stupid too? Are all scholars that show gay not to be sin stupid and wrong and all scholars that show gay is sin right? What about all the mommy's and daddy's that just can't accept what pastor says about Johnny? They go and independently study the Bible them selves and many write books about what they found. Are these mommy's and daddy's wrong? Of course they are wrong because you say so.
Please, remember, as you read this, I am not being sarcastic, hateful
or ugly.. I am just presenting a point.
^i^ Why because you feel that maybe you could be guilty? Your well intended heart is meaningless when it results in the murder of 600 million innocent people. Are you patting yourself on the back because you are so good? What does sarcastic, hateful, or ugly mean to you? You aren't showing any respect to other people research that differs from yours. Excuse me, I am sorry I forgot that you just have not studied gays using positive resources. When you study the other side of the story then speak up. Hate is a behavior not a word. You can say you love people all you want, but people read your behavior. When you talk to me every single word is designed to say gay is sin and you do not want and would not accept real fact that counterdicts that. How many prayer and worship Christian gay groups have you attended lately? How can you know if you aren't "sarcastic, hateful or ugly"? From what view are you seeing yourself? Is this your opinion? If you had love you'd take great risks and get involved in personal contact with gay Christian groups. You'd sit in their services for many weeks, because if you happen to run into someone that makes you feel uncomfortable and conclude you have your proof who are you fooling? I have spent 7 years going to gay churches and 23 years going to straight churches. 5 years I took groups as my work to various churches and so spent considerable time in each as it rotated and over this period I got lots of experience with the many Christian churches. This also included Sunday schools. Do you have experience with the extended family? Or do you condemn their doctrine if its against AOG? You don't seem to know the difference between defensive behavior and sent by God behavior. One major cop out of homophobes is to say gays that say gay is not sin are just defending their sin. Had you known the Church is defending lots of sins against innocent people. You talk of Church history of anti-gay preaching, haven't you also studied the horrible treatment the Church has done in the name of Jesus in the past 2000 years. Most pastors and most scholars often bring up these past behaviors of the Church. Yes, the Church is very much reaching out to people, but like Israel it often sins and God must raise up nations to punish it. Today most believe there is no punishment for Church sins, just get Raptured free and clear of reprimand. You claim to know the Word then how come you can't see that the Church is about to be shaken and this for the past sins. We are the Church that gets the punishment of the past 2000 years of sin. God says our sins are greater than the past so we should not be amazed.
seven times (KJV)
Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. (KJV)
Lev 26:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. (KJV)
Lev 26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. (KJV)
Lev 26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. (KJV)
^i^ God has shown me we are in the 4th level of disobedience. What is unusual about that? We have the history of Israel to show us God's people always gets into sin. What is the same yesterday, today, and forever mean to you? If God's people sinned before and now then what does God do? He is the same so he will do the same. He will raise nations up against his people "anti-Christ kingdom". So tell me your behavior, is it love or hate? Do you accuse the innocent or guilty people? You must decide if you can't it will soon be decided for you and you won't like what is about to happen. But, again, you believe that the Church will leave earth before the Trib starts. HMMM I wonder who God talks so much about in the OT when he refer to his people? Is it Israel? But they in one moment see who they pierced, God is talking about a longer period of shaking for his Church and it just has not happened yet. Had you loved then you'd know the real enemy and fight to expose them. (Masons). I bet you haven't told you church about Masons have you. What are they anyway just a nice club helping out in the community? When you give no hope to gays you aren't loving. The gays you think you are helping really want to please Jesus and think you are a shepherd to guide them to a better walk with Jesus. Time does strange things, it proves a point. Jesus never meant for anyone to be under such strict rules especially regarding SEX. I bet you think that means I am saying have it every way and anyway and everybody. Hey, try in reading what I write that you don't insert your wishes. When you say gay is sin you say that gays have no hope to ever go to Heaven because that means they must change first and be straight. Please don't continue in stupidity and think you can prove something with an example of a bisexual or someone that been swamped with anti-gay doctrines and had no time to work out their lives. So you bind and seal the door on gays, don't try to explain yourself out of it unless you want to denounce AOG doctrine which you subscribe to. Especially concerning gays. Your master is still headquarters and you will keep that so until such time that the truth tugs strong enough to stand up for the persecuted innocent. Remember you have no comprehension that AOG doctrine is so hateful toward millions. You see love and rebuke anyone that says differently. AOG chooses who it loves and who it hates. You can state that your church is different, but your message to gays shows on this issue it is one of hate. I speak strongly to make this stick in your head and urge you to make a commitment not to follow any longer the road that selects who to hate and who to love based on a doctrine. Behavior is love not l o v e the word. The CHURCH's love can be seen from a far off. 2 to 3 billion people can't know Jesus because it see the behavior of the Church. In spite of the appearance of my attacks on the Church I love the Church and it is a demonstrable love. You call it defensive when from a great distance if you had your eyes open you'd see that how can someone go directly into a hostile environment risking his life to speak something so controversial. If I were just defending myself would I be willing to die for you? I have totally no desire to defend me. I care less what your opinion is concerning gays. I am 50 years old I never cared as it were what other may think about what I do in private. I had no reason or no need to defend myself. When I got saved I studied for my own sake to see for myself for my relationship with Jesus as my Lord and savior. As I learned the Bible does not condemn gays my thoughts were that the Church is to big and so hate gays that what could one person do to change it. Besides I just want to have an ordinary ministry like anyone else. BUT GOD! You know the saying. Then when I confronted (not my choice but ordered too) my first pastor (AOG) every phrase that pastor said in condemning phrase using the Bible, God put the completed sentence in my head. After that I went home and pleaded with God saying no one unless ordained by God should take authority over ministers chosen by God as having a ministry over them. I thought I knew my life and though close to Jesus and know what I am talking about I could not see where God gave me this authority as it would have to be a strong part of my past. A direct ordination from God. I knew in my heart that the fact was God did call me to that, but where was the confirmation. It has to be given me in his word directly and overwhelmingly. I prayed loudly where God did you tell me to do this... Instantly flooded in to my soul and spirit came Ezek. 34. To you maybe its meaningless, but to me from the day I was saved till that time in 1985 June that chapter was thrown at me at every turn. Every Bible I picked up open to the chapter. No matter whose Bible it was. It always came with a flood from God. I had no understanding what it meant. Every pastor I saw was so good so Godly so full of God message so revealing of God's word it was good food for me everywhere I went and how can these people need such rebuke from God?????? Suddenly a flood of revelation pour out of that chapter as God told me to re-read it now. It was a story that has become my theme chapter as it leaped out saying how gays were treated by the Church and what God intends. In that one chapter hold the history and future of gays. It tells a story about how pastor feed themselves included was pictures I try to explain that God gave showing how even you are feeding yourself and not the flock. What God showed me over the years fell into to place as God revealed to me this story. You have taught your flock even gays that you did not know were there, they had to eat what the rest of you muddied. read it, it their. I doubt if you would ever accept what I say about it, but SO WHAT I don't need to care how you feel. If you are going to be the example template of what God has in store then your life will change and you won't care about headquarters anymore. If you aren't chosen to be an example then you may be a consequence. But I know you still want to laugh this off and go on as though you are right on tract with God. I have to prove nothing, I just am filled with the desire to explain what I see and it becomes between you and God. Soon God will send service to churches and speak plagues and other things. Much of the coming days aren't going to be necessary wonderful healing services, but God sending servant to say directly with rebuke if necessary to the shepherds and the results will cause the Church to seek every means possible to have these servants killed. Do you think it will be different than the past? Do you think the Church will love the 144 thousand or the 2 witnesses or the other servants which will also preach a message the Church does not want to hear? Do you really believe God spent so much time developing the TRIB that his people are gone and don't get to participate? Go ahead a play Church, the CLOCK ticks on. Suddenly there you are not expecting this to happen to you. Your heart should be wrenched in agony almost to reach out to your flock to prepare them for the Last Days, but what do you tell them? We that love Jesus won't go through the Trib, but be Raptured away from the coming troubles. What will be the results to your flock the ones you love and pray for and then they see they did not get Raptured per AOG doctrine. @ issues in the Church that is far the biggest obstacles to reaching the Rapture. The gay issue and God's breaking the power of the Church in a 1260 day period. This will cause the great falling away. "The Thief in the Night" movie showed a pastor left behind so heart broken because he never told his flock and he now see it was there all time. Are you going to be that pastor too? I bet you don't think so.......
I hope, we can continue our discussion on much less defensive level..
I will be looking forward to you reply.
^i^ Defensive discussed above... And you may not be looking forward to my replies because I will tell you the truth and you thinks its a lie, I will still tell you what God has shown me. I just hope you are Christian enough to understand when God is sending you a message and you are in a position to find a way to get it to your flock.
By the way, I do not have very many pulpit guests. I never have
anyone I don't know. There are just too many wolves and I am
required to be a protector of the people that the Lord has allowed me
to pastor. Maybe as we continue our dialogue we have opportunity to
meet and get to know each other.
^i^ I hope this doesn't make you belittle AOG's guest speakers. Are you saying you are the best speaker for your church and the wolves will come in? HMMMM. Protecting the church from wolves from without your church so the wolves in your church can continue to eat you flock's salvation away. One of my pet peeves with pastors is that they love to preach and tell their flock to do so through the week. While you visit the sick and counsel those with family problems. I say to you your job is specific. You need to not only teach them how to witness but take them out into the wild and teach them on the job training. How can most of your flock reach the lost when you say the Bible says you are my witnesses and so they without your support go out a quickly get bitten so stop witnessing. Only a few learn that bites won't kill them and go on to be a witness for the Lord. You as pastor must take them out to the hwywys and bywys however you define that and show them how to survive the wolf's bite. But most AOG pastors don't know how either as they graduated then put out a petition to serve went out on interviews, finally a church voted you in so you told them to go out by themselves, which most can't because of the wolf's bite.. Figure it out. What happens if God does not want to speak to you with someone from your church? Then you don't hear God then huh? And you let the messenger pass by you. Have you ever ask if there were any Masons in your church? Have you ever investigated that issue? 80 years now Masons have been accomplishing their chief goal of infiltrating esp. Sunday schools to ever so slightly modify the lessons to make the Church unprepared for the coming days. Is your church immune? How can you know? Did you visit the planning session of the Masons as the worked out the details enough to deceive even the elect. These people are destined to build anti-Christ's kingdom and you would simply say not in my church they won't. They already have and you even nourish the resulted subtle change in teaching which in effect will cause great confusion making many of the elect think Jesus lied. But then you are not interested in the coming days because you and your church will be Raptured at the beginning and the Masons wasted away 80 years of intense work. OK..... In the Southern Baptist alone there are 300 - 400 thousand masons and names of the Baptist famous past leader many were 32nd level Masons are documented on the internet for easy access.
^i^ I'd love to meet you, I may sound very strong against your stand on gays, but as I have said from the beginning I am a 23 year AOG man and had much experience the last 12 years with AOG pastors in Seattle on the issue. Besides the other denominations. It is my purpose in writing to you to explain things in perspective to these pastors and the hundreds of thousands of personal conversations I have with all walks of Christianity's people who say gay is sin. I have also talked with plenty that don't say gay is sin as well. So if you or others that may read this letter take it as though I am personally attacking you you have misrepresented my message to you. It is very understandable however that you hold similar views to all the ones I have personally dealt with and you are not a special Christian that views against gays are given in a since of LOVE you hold to be dearly true. If you really think you express love please now cast that thought from your mind until you have properly researched gays. I have heard preached so many times and ways how ministers explains Jesus' life and death and resurrection using examples of courts of law the secular of his day and every means available to show that Jesus did what is written of him. Its time to do likewise when discussing 600 million people in a class that is so quickly preached as going straight to hell unless they become straight or live celibate lives. I have no intention of if I meet you to play Church, but I will be Church for Christ is in me and no matter what you believe you can't make Jesus another Jesus that's in me and you can't undue what Jesus has done or said to me in my life. You can't make my life into a lie that you most certainly wish it was. You will be facing a man full of love and the grace of God and sent to you with a purpose of God. I may make you very upset when I come. I won't tolerate anti-gay belief and will answer every issue concerning your anti-gay doctrine. I would much rather tell my story, my testimony in Christ Jesus to your Church. This testimony like the book Evidence demands a Verdict, so does my walk with Christ. And like the book the intention is Christ is who he said he was can be the only verdict. The Church never has taken gays to court, but has condemn from a distance or overwhelmed the innocent that has no idea about God's word only what you heap onto their shoulders they tremendous load. Jesus as you know said his burden is light, yet how heavy a burden you force gays to carry for the sake of your pleasure to condemn. I speak harshly about Church condemnation and persecution, but know very well your thoughts can't fathom that your behavior persecutes or condemns, you would go to your death bed swearing that its love you give. Wake up that is not LOVE the Church issues to gays but death. Your people needs to hear about the Church in the Last Days and that gay is not sin. Its the key to keeping the faith. If the Church holds that gay is sin and all that means it can't learn LOVE that is required for Heaven, if you don't have it then you must live in the Millenium in a healed body if you learn within that last 1260 days. Also/and the Church must get deep roots fast as a dry period is coming and the outside water source is removed. These 2 things are required. I know you would say NO because you would say believing the Jesus is the Christ and God rose him on the 3rd day get you saved and so you are covered. This is a step, you have read many times that we must persevere, holdfast, and standfast. This has meaning. Why do we need to be told so often this????? Unless there would be a reason that we might not try so hard and fall. This is a warning of the Last Days because things will happen and are in place that will make Christians believe Jesus lied to them. They will turn their backs on him and perish. But if they had some idea that Jesus told them these things would come and believed GOD then they would stand fast till that day (Rapture). Also the LOVE lesson must be accomplished that that is that last great test of the Church "GAYS". Why has this issue waited to these last days to come forth throughout the world? It is to test the Church's love for others and Heavenly requirement. You carry LOVE to Heaven with you to reign with Christ. Jesus is the one that fits each Christian with their wedding gown and the Church doesn't have a gown yet or have picked out their own. This just can't be, Jesus will pick out your gown and dress you with it. It will hurt a lot, but when you get it on then you are ready for him. Many won't get it on and will have to wait 1000 years and 42 more months for their spiritual body. Your people needs to get ready you are called to get them ready not to play church and party with Jesus. Jesus promised to be with you and if you want to party he will party too he promised he be in the mist of you so don't think it unusual to have wonderful worship services with healings and other miracles and feel his presence. He promised he would, its you that needs to believe God's Word and prepare as the time is present and not future. Morn visibly for the world for that day horrendous days a head. They must see your genuine concern for them, cry publicly out for them, because you believe GOD and what he said he would do soon, but don't neglect you own flock they are going to die spiritually unless you prepare them . The world sees a party in the Church what do you see? Almost every time I turn on TBN its singing and happy time, sometimes the are so close, but then go contrary to the Word and say for Christians they will not be here. What of the parable of the king that gave a feast for his son and everyone had an excuse not to come. All the invited guest what happened to them? Who are the invited guest?????? The CROSS is the invitation! This parable and the others aren't for a mysterious people or evil people, but are for God's people. Jesus spoke in parables to God's people and now we have arrive at the center stage of its full meaning. Why is so much of God's word ignored? Everywhere it tells the Church sometimes that sounds negative its ignored and pointed elsewhere. I urge you to consider the importance of your calling afresh in these Last Days.
Voice: 206-338-4297(gays) text: 425-321-5987 correspondence: email@example.com