Gays For Jesus
Still, God detests people doing Gay activities.
Part 2 of 2 comments from Peter Campbell Gays For Jesus TV viewer...
8441 tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of 8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol: KJV-- abominable (custom, thing), abomination.
6292 pigguwl (pig-gool'); or piggul (pig-gool'); from an unused root meaning to stink; properly, fetid, i.e. (figuratively) unclean (ceremonially): KJV-- abominable (-tion, thing).
8263 sheqets (sheh'-kets); from 8262; filth, i.e. (figuratively and specifically) an idolatrous object: KJV-- abominable (-tion). ***. shiqquts. See 8251.
8251 shiqquwts (shik-koots'); or shiqquts (shik-koots'); from 8262; disgusting, i.e. filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol: KJV-- abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).
887 ba'ash (baw-ash'); a primitive root; to smell bad; figuratively, to be offensive morally: KJV-- (make to) be abhorred (had in abomination, loathsome, odious), (cause a, make to) stink (-ing savour), X utterly.
946 bdelugma (bdel'-oog-mah); from 948; a detestation, i.e. (specially) idolatry: KJV-- abomination.
Lev 7:18 And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity. (KJV)
Above is from 6292, however as you read it is also used ritually.
1 Sam 13:4 And all Israel heard say that Saul had smitten a garrison of the Philistines, and that Israel also was had in abomination with the Philistines. And the people were called together after Saul to Gilgal. (KJV)
Above is used in 887, which is offensive morally. Fairly broad, would be hard to make this mean related to sex especially male to male.
All other verses for abomination use the words for abomination that have other gods involved. Again all studies show abomination was not used to mean every days digesting things or regular immorality. However, all New Testament uses of abomination used the Greek word for things done involving other gods. So though abomination evolved by NT times, it still was not used in the NT to denote anything except acts to other gods.
Some Christians have different beliefs about Gays, some of these are based upon scripture, some are based upon tradition, some are based upon sermons they have heard, some are only based upon their basic premise that since the physical activities are clearly detestable by God, therefore there must be something wrong with the person.
^i^This is why when discussing the Bible or the Christian walk both parties must have an idea what each other’s background is to appropriately discuss Bible issues. I have been in the Assemblies of God for 30 plus years and/or related independent churches splitting off or going independent from AOG affiliation, but maintaining generally the fundamental doctrines and beliefs of AOG. So if a Catholic or Mormon wanted to talk about issues their basic foundation can be quite different. It could be generally accepted by each That Jesus is at least the Son of God. But from their WOW it can be really dumb to try to convince one from another denominational background on very simple basics fundamentals. To try to discuss sin issues is radically out of line without laying some ground work that some basics are far more important than who thinks what it sin or what doctrine is right about Jesus. All will always say they believe the Bible. All will say they are Christian. So as Peter D. is saying yes there are all kinds of idea about every issue in the Bible. Gays are like straights in that they come from every walk of life and every denomination imaginable. So saying some say this or that is like saying some are of Apollos some are of….
1 Cor 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. (KJV)
So Peter D. you are babbling in your paragraph…
The 10 Commandments say, do not commit Adultery but people that commit adultery are not thought to have something wrong with them.
^ i^ All OT uses Hebrew meaning is:
5003 na'aph (naw-af'); a primitive root; to commit adultery; figuratively, to apostatize: KJV-- adulterer (-ess), commit (-ing) adultery, woman that breaketh wedlock.
This word is also associated with “woman” in Lev both ch. 18 and 20:
802 'ishshah (ish-shaw'); feminine of 376 or 582; irregular plural, nashiym (naw-sheem'); a woman (used in the same wide sense as 582): KJV-- [adulter] ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Often unexpressed in English.
^i^ So often people love to pick a commandment to point a finger and yet I just don’t quite understand quite how anyone can use any of the 10 Commandments against anybody because the 4th Commandment goes into so much more detail that all the other Commandments. You see we can study this Sabbath Commandment in detail. It simply is not up for grabs and is not negotiable. Yet, Christians think Sunday is the day and people have many reasons to not use Saturday. Some other religions used Saturday, the Jews used Saturday. However, exhaustive research does show that Saturday as we know it on our calendar has not slipped to another day by people or nations changing thing over time. The over all rule to make Sunday the Sabbath for Christians is a farewell service for some apostles as they went off on a missionary venture. Jesus death and resurrection did not eliminate this forever Commandment. It did not become a thing of the heart and spirit. Yet, disobeying it has a very strong penalty. We today do anything we please on Saturday. How can we condemn or point fingers at someone not in compliance with the other 9 Commandments?
Exod 31:13-15 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (KJV)
^ i^ By the way what are the 10 Commandments anyway?
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Command #1 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Command #2 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Command #3 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Command #4 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Command #5 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Command #6 13 Thou shalt not kill.
Command #7 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Command #8 15 Thou shalt not steal.
Command #9 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Command #10 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (KJV)
^i^ I think you are wondering off your topic to me, you were saying gay is sin, now you wonder off into adultery??? Is this an attempt to say gays commit adultery? Isn’t that funny, generally it thought gays can not marry so how do they commit adultery, you need to apply another sin like fornication. Yes gays do marry and God honors it and do adultery rule apply in sort of similar ways. And yes the Church usually does not get involved much in the sin of adultery. After all 69% of Christian do divorce and most remarry so most live in adultery according to Bible provisions to the letter of the Word.
Jesus told us, he loves the sinner but hates the sin. This I believe is clearly the case.
^i^ This catchy phrase will send many to hell that use it. Yes God indeed love the sinner and hates the sin, but people do not have the ability to be God and decipher what this means until it is shown to them. There are two main ways to learn enough information to be able to know what God knows on this “love sinner hate the sin” phrase and then be able to point fingers at sin while displaying love to the sinner. Above are the Ten Commandments, this is a handbook of instructions to teach you how to obey Jesus’ TWO Commands:
Matt 22:37-40 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (KJV)
^i^ The first 4 of the 10 Commandments explains how to love God, the last 6 of the 10 Commandments explains how to love your neighbor. As explained above we are in complete disobedience to Commandment 4, we are hardly able to judge and give penalties to LAW breakers of the other 9 Commandments. However, Jesus provides a way which is not possible for us to do. He forgives us our sins and if we stay faithful to the primary and simple rule to believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he rose on the 3rd day paying the price of our sins and confess this with our mouths, we shall be saved at that DAY. As we love the sinner and hate the sin he does we will be judged by God as we judge those we love but hate their sins.
Matt 7:1-2 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (KJV)
^i^ God has shown be something very important concerning these Last Days. I have often wondered how can 2000 years of Christians that have died with such a huge amount of errors in the faith and belief in such completely wrong doctrine and be in such sins themselves be SAVED and forgiven while today’s Christians will have to change and have significant change to stay Saved till the Rapture. The Bible tells us that we will be spanked rather hard and God will dress us in the wedding gown for his Son’s wedding. We have become so fat that we need to loose a lot of weight for these wedding gowns to fit us. We can not just ask for a size larger. God’s exercise plan will not be fun and will last 1260 days with a time to think about it for another 75 days. This last 75 days could be cut short though only God know how much shorter that would be. I have learned that if we believe (true believers) when we die (including during those1260 days and the extra 75 days) and we still believe:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
^i^ would be Saved and go to Heaven. But something will happen to us before going thru to that other side. We hear many stories about wonderful things and sometimes not so wonderful in the various near death testimonies. Near death (where you come back) is not death and does not complete deaths transaction and completion of living in our physical bodies.
1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (KJV)
^i^ This verse has a mystery in it. It has hidden in it a story that is learned by trying to understand this mystery of the differences between Raptured Saints and dead Saints. Through the Bible and many sources and experience and revelations and more, the Bible puzzles comes together and you learn God is really like he says he is and got the whole things well documented so those who hunger can be fed. I came to understand that when we die remaining faithful we get the final lesson that makes us able to live eternally with Jesus. We are given shown things that makes put minds able to be pure in thought and able to see, we are fitted for our wedding gown, then we go to wait the Raising of the dead in Christ.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (KJV)
1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)
^i^ When the dead in Christ rise they have 100% of all needed criteria for eternal life with Jesus, but we which are alive and remain till his coming do not have the luxury of dead in Christ preparation services. We can not go in the rapture until we get what the dead in Christ got. But the delivery method God will use for us that are living is different. The dead pretty much knew that they were getting the get go from the horses mouth, we still want to believe we are right so this arrogance will have to go:
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (KJV)
^i^ Time times and a half is 1260 days. The Bible says 3 billion people will die in a 42 months period of time. This will not be a pretty sight to see first hand, but we that remain alive will see this and many Christians will die too. What’s more the TWO WITNESSES main job is to get the attention of the Saints. The Saints will not like these TWO very well and huge number of Christians will turn their backs on Jesus. The Reasons for such a spanking of God’s people is explained in Lev. 26 in the 4th level of disobedience. Today we have reached this level. Also, some things Jesus set restrictions on himself until a specific point of time:
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (KJV)
^i^ This has a mystery revealed in it. It has the date (time frame) that Jesus is released from his restrictions and can operate fully to answer the prayers of the Saints persecuted by the Saints.
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (KJV)
^i^ There is a lot with reading much concerning the innocent being so persecuted by the Church the Last 2000 years and we often wonder how can God not move and stop such pain caused by his people to others in his name.
Ezek 34:17-22 17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. 18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet. 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle. 21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; 22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. (KJV)
^i^ This is pretty serious stuff and well used by those persecuted by other Christians over the past 2000 years as a comforter to know the Jesus knows what they go through and has set plans send judgments on His people one day. There is a time schedule in the Bible. 7000 years max. All things get done in this time. We are at 6000 years.
Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (KJV)
^i^ The above reflexes the past 2000 yrs and this that we are in the 3rd 1000 yrs. There is an accounted for 1000 yrs after this 2000 yrs above.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (KJV)
^i^ this adds up to 3000 yrs, we know that 4000 yrs from ADAM being kicked out of the Garden till Jesus was born. We know after Rev 20:6’s 1000 yrs that all is melted away.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (KJV)
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (KJV)
^i^ the sequences of events demands that there is a few short years of time that the Tribulation can exist. Various ways of determining a more precise date. Generally as we get closer we can get more accurate if we obey:
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. (KJV)
^i^ this WATCHing is important. This also is generally where people assume we can not know when the Rapture will take place, but it is for those that don’t WATCH, otherwise we can know up to 75 days of the Rapture after we see one event take place. We can know the really close space of time by many things, mid century we began to really get the idea after 1948 that in our lifetime Jesus could return when Israel became a nation again. But as we get closer certain things happen that we figure out needed to be. Now we are so close that we can even know the name of the real antichrist and his age (40 yrs old [around 2002). We can see the real possible one world gov’t ready to start any day. Other sources not Christian begin getting down to exacting detail of times and events soon to take place and much more. The best we really can know is at the very beginning of the 3rd millennium is all the time allowed for the return of Jesus. Gov’t is setting a schedule to 2012 (Dec 21) which is the last day of the Mayan calendar. You would be surprised how important this is. A foot note. The Mayan Calendar sets 7000 yrs of time from beginning to completion. It describes generally the same time table as the Bible for similar events. New age movement is not a quackery hippy groups but involves people and groups and gov’t leaders working towards the coming one world gov’t. So as I have gotten long winded on love the sinner not the sin my point is we should understand this is not a game and we are not playing church and we all will be affected so severely and very soon that when we judge another we better be right, we as the Christian that will be alive when Jesus comes for us will also receive the chastisement of 2000 yrs of church wide sins. Saying you are Saved and will not turn your back now is a little premature. You have not seen what is planned and what is scheduled and what is in orbit in good working order that will shock all you senses into believing Jesus is returning. When it starts ( I am really convinced that 911 was key, it was an event of the nature that the elite were trying to produce and hoping would happen so they can begin non-stop and so it has begun) it will escalate in stages. Home land security is to form a dictator state not protect citizens. It is to facilitate marshal law not keep terrorist away, it is to create a method to call anyone an enemy of the state and take them without recourse to constitutional law. My information show 2001 was the year to begin population reduction which well exculpate each year. The ultimate goal set back in the 70 and considered in the 50s is to reduce the population to 1 billion by 2019. I have only covered the tip of the iceberg just to show that in place is the machinery to fulfill the terror of the tribulation period of 7 years. Christian will go through 1335 of the Trib, it is not going to be play church praising God till he come and do some good works along the way. We won’t go to heaven by magic but standing fast, holdfast, and persevering till the end. We are urged often to hang in there. Why should we need such constant reminders to keep the faith if the faith is impossible to lose?
People reject phrases like God loves the sinner but hates the sin. Also understand love is not a word but a behavior. Those that say they love gay people but must warn them to change and be straight or abstain do not understand the word love. It is behavior people see not words. They see you saying gay is sin, but they do not see you study. Study means you took the time in love, to learn the subject of the Bible concerning gays whether it condemns or not gays. People see that you can read the Bible, but on a subject like telling a gay person he must never have sex again or change and be straight an marry some opposite person means you have not considered what you say. I tell you stop breathing or you will go to hell. I can try to stop but at best I will pass out and start breathing again. Point being something that is pretty hard to do must have some pretty strong backing up and support. Then on top of all this Jesus has to get involved as this is the promises some many homophobes gives to gays. If gay were sin then you would have an extremely high number of very valid testimonies, we would not have to fight the gov’t to reveal what they know about UFOs the saucers would be landing everywhere. Instead we get long term struggling with no real deliverances other than “if you say it you will get it” thing. So what you really tell gays is Jesus does not love you enough to really set you free. Had you love you would be able to present material that is well researched and includes controls. Like in new drugs for the market. They do exhaustive testing with placeboes and real medicine and confirmed with control subject if the new drug will do as it is reported or hoped. Concerning gays you have 600 million gays so testing would be easy. You have ex-homophobes galore too. You have Christian gays with decades of testimonies. Instead as you say love the gay person but hate the practice of gays, you never produce valid information that would help gays. I have looked into the practices of over 200 ex-gay ministries, one common thread is comparing Christian gays which are abundant that have gay marriages and their lives with Christ at the center and straight marriages with Christ at the center then present results to your clients that you say must change and be straight or live celibate is unheard of in these ministries or any Church that says gay is sin. Say what you may, Jesus is REAL and you can not wish what he does away and you can not make statements that it really is satan or demons and not Jesus if wonderful things that happen to Christian like miracles and answered prayers and blessings in the gay marriages and much more like operation in the Holy Spirit, healings, all the gift of the Spirit and those having these gifts use them on gays with the same results of using them on straights with the wonderful words from God of callings and his love and more. These things happen to gays. I have 31 yrs of them. You need to explain why straight pastors in well accepted and established churches loved by Christians suddenly can get demon possessed with a gay person happens under his laying on of hands. Sorry there is too much the homophobe must answer to if they really mean they love the gay person but hate the sin. Then you have to explain in gay Christian churches why the same spirit is felt that as in the standard denominations. In Pentecostal gay church you have similar operations in the Holy Spirit. This demands investigation by anyone accusing or stating gay is sin. Hatred is a behavior and when you state gay is sin or God say is sin, but you can’t even explain the simplest basic foundation of the main words used against gays. You associate gang rape, male temple prostitutes, straights turning from God to gods, expensive call boys, straight men going to male temple prostitutes, and general sexual immorality as though they meant gay. And so you say gay is sin. This is a display of hate not love. So when you mouth says you love it is seen that you hate by your actions. Another note homophobe just have no clue about and that is there is lots of prophesy and lots of mystery and revelation from God and history that shows that gays are not a hap hazard offshoot of humanity or even a mere DNA gene development such as blue or brown eyes. Races are a more significant direction of the DNA structure God created Adam’s RIB (cell from that RIB) as they have cause a great deal of changing the course of how we think and live. But no one dares consider why there is this gay thing. Only a gay person that lost his marbles may wildly say gay is a gift from God or has a significant purpose. However, that again means you need to do research and learn. There are some very interesting sources and stories on and about gays concerning God’s plan. For me I really think the Church amputated the gay member of the body of Christ 700 yrs ago and the result is a very very sick Church today.
1 Cor 12:21-23 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (KJV)
^i^ In 1967 God
began restoring gays to dignity in Christ body. First with Dignity a Catholic
group, then in 1968 MCC a Protestant group, then in 1969 with the secular gays
at a bar named Stonewall. Most gays even today do not know God is preparing them
for ministry or don’t realize the extent gay Christians will be involved in the
coming days. The Gay church as it were is 36 yrs old and it is huge. There are
120 or so ex-gay groups in the USA, but sometime there are that many Christian
gay groups in a single large city. Twenty yrs ago here in Seattle listed in the
gay paper were groups covering all the major denominations, let alone other
religions and them many groups not listed, There is Bible for this process
as part of the 5 some areas of the Bible that talks about gays positively.
Jeremiah says God restores pastors to gays; Ez says God will basically bring
dignity and prosperity back to gays in the sight of those that persecutes them.
Then in EZ a whole chapter that tells the story of how the church treats gays
and what God intends to do about it. 2 contractual marriages maybe 3 by gay
couples, if you research heavily into ancient writings of Jesus day you
will find “born Eunuchs are gays beyond a doubt. You will learn Luke describe 2
men in the same bed which is impossible for straight Jewish men and so a
verse like this can not exist about straight men, but it can exist about gays.
There is even more hidden in the Word of God as God goes into intimate details
of a gay couple describing their whole life story. This will shock the world of
Christianity one day. God revealed this to me in 1974 and this is the first time
I have written this to my writings of areas that are positive towards gays. When
I hear someone like Peter say “This
I believe is clearly the case.” (above statement from Peter) I am reminded of how often I
hear extremely ignorant people make statements based on “I believe is clearly the
clearly is a figment of their imagination the true “clearly” is like saying
“sodomite” the ancient Hebrew word means “6945 qadesh (kaw-dashe');
from 6942; a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by
prostitution) to licentious idolatry: KJV-- sodomite, unclean.” Instead of
sodomite means anal intercourse as I am told often by very sincere Christians
trying to tell me gay is sin. Thanks you Peter again for your email. It has
given me opportunity to refresh and ad in new information to older responses to
others that have emailed me on similar issues.
Voice: 206-338-4297(gays) text: 425-321-5987 correspondence: email@example.com